Talk:Callaway Golf Company

This page doesn't really read too badly as an advertisement...Callaway is one of the biggest companies in golf, hence they are traded on the NYSE. Unfortunately, this is a very porrly written article. No deletion but major reedit! (Jeeps2009 22:02, 16 May 2006 (UTC))

Hey, just did a major re-write about how Callaway got to be a big company in golf. Ditched the endorsement list, the product line spiel, and who the CEO is as of last week.

I'm not going to claim that the previous version(s) were a stellar example of what a Wikipedia article should be, but I feel like it reads _more_ like an advertisement now. Why, for example, leave out the endorsement of major players, and include a mention of an ad with Bill Gates? And adding "how Callaway got to be a big company in golf" but failing to even link to the Big Bertha (golf club) article seems a little silly to me, no offense, especially as much of the information would be more appropriate there. --JdwNYC 00:16, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

I'm in the process of editing this article. I think that Big Bertha should be merged into this article. I'm also going to add more history on their implementation of titanium drivers, their loss of ground in the market, and then their subsequent bounce back. 72.44.0.76 10:23, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

I think the integration of the Big Bertha article with Callaway is a good idea. I never linked to the Big Bertha in the original re-write article because I made the assumption it didn't exist at all, especially given the paucity of info in the original Callaway article. I mentioned the Bill Gates add because it is relevant info in the company's history. If it reads like an ad there isn't much I can do about that, but at least it doesn't read like a PR Newswire release from Callaway itself anymore. Nice addy with the Alice Cooper bit, I didn't know that. A mention about Callaway for a long time being perceived as the "best club maker never to win a Major" bit until Michael Cambell won in 2005 might be worthwhile as well.

Update

Tried to re-organize the structure and eliminate the advertisement mumbo-jumbo. Don't know who put the "fact" tags in but they need references. Unable to finish tonight. Will continue tomorrow. --Esung911 02:19, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

reverted edits

I attempted to update this article on Callaway Golf on July 13 &14, 2010, as the information contained is incorrect, incomplete and outdated. The changes I made were reverted, with no explanation and with vulgar terminology.

I again attempted to update the incorrect/outdated page and was told I would be blocked if I attempted to do so again. The reason given was that the information was promotional; I asked for a specific example and have not received one. The new, comprehensive and corrected information that I added was reverted to incorrect, outdated information. I asked for specifics on how to update the page so it would be acceptable, and was referred to post a comment on this page.

This Callaway Golf page reflects poorly on the accuracy and veracity of Wikipedia and the Wikipedia process, and the information is wrong and outdated. Can someone help? Two For Mirth (talk) 10:52, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

It is difficult to highlight specifics because you decimated the existing content in one fell swoop. If you have specific points that you feel need to be addressed please list them here in a clear and concise manner. _wjemather^bigissue 11:38, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

• To be clear and concise, the existing overview information about Callaway Golf is very poorly written - played at games? - and very sparse. Much of it is simply incorrect. I have tried to remedy that, but you continue to simply revert the page. To elaborate:
• Ely Callaway did not sell clubs from the trunk of his Cadillac. He did sometimes deliver them personally, which is quite a different thing. This is just one example of many; I provided a comprehensive and correct history, which you summarily deleted and reverted to incorrect information that is far from comprehensive.
• I see you have now reposted the updated list of products I provided. Thanks for that; at least one thing is correct on the page.
• You reposted some of the golfers who represent Callaway Golf, but left out Arnold Palmer and Annika Sorenstam, as well as the entire Nationwide Tour roster. Why do you say that only "major" tours should be represented here? Is it not relevant that Annika Sorenstam played and has played Callaway Golf clubs for her entire career?
• The information box I posted was correct and complete. The one with the Warbird golf ball image is not. The information itself is incorrect/outdated/incomplete, and the image represents a product that is no longer made. Why would you delete correct and relevant information, including the Board of Directors, headquarters location, predecessor, area served, company slogan, products, services, subsidiaries and so on? Are those not facts?
• There is no information/history on Ely Callaway. I provided that; it is relevant as he founded the company. The information was deleted.
• The current "history" is incomplete and incorrect. I provided a comprehensive, year-by-year history; it was deleted.
• I included information about Callaway Golf technologies that are patented; I listed the number of patents the company holds, and the technologies that are unique to Callaway Golf. This information is true, verifiable and contributes to the overall understanding of Callaway Golf. Why was it deleted? Two For Mirth (talk) 12:07, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

That is neither clear nor concise. I asked for specific satements, you have given none. While I agree that the existing article is fairly poor, what you replaced it with was far worse. But to address some of your points, the infobox should give only a summary of the most pertinent details, not a full list of boardroom staff and certainly not a full product listing. I am of the mind that the whole endorsements section should go the way of the dodo, as should the current product line, since they add nothing encyclopaedic to the article, but decided (fairly in my view) to limit it to the major tours. As noted below, all information must be properly referenced from reliable sources, preferably independent ones. _wjemather^bigissue 12:21, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

Specific statements, repeated from above but apparently not read:

• Ely Callaway did not sell clubs from the trunk of his Cadillac. He did sometimes deliver them personally, which is quite a different thing.
• The one with the Warbird golf ball image is not. The information itself is incorrect/outdated/incomplete, and the image represents a product that is no longer made.

It is obvious you are intent on perpetuating incorrect information about Callaway Golf, and in preventing anyone else from correcting it. Why will you not allow it to be corrected?

If you look at the Apple Inc. page, for example, it is very similar to what I tried to achieve with the Callaway Golf page. Two For Mirth (talk) 12:28, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

I took the time to spit through your last edit and have some examples, first off:

"Ely Callaway was restless in retirement and playing lots of golf when he noticed an old-fashioned, hickory-shafted wedge in a Palm Springs-area golf shop. He was intrigued by the club, which looked like the clubs he had played as a youth."

This kind of stuff does not belong in an encyclopedic article.Its not promotional or anything, but unencyclopedic and unsourced stuff about a living person. There are many more examples of this in the article, but I will stick with the promotional stuff for the rest of the comment:

"pro shop owners recall Ely Callaway personally delivering orders of his “Demonstrably Superior and Pleasingly Different” clubs from the trunk of his Cadillac."

"during the company's early and explosive growth."

"The patented, breakthrough innovation,"

"1991-1997: Big, Bigger and Biggest"

"The new club technology forever changed the golf equipment industry,"

"and a state-of-the-art production facility."

Superlatives everywhere and hardly any sources. Also the entire section only mentions success stories and absolutely nothing else. This will fit excellently on official page of the company, but it does not belong on wikipedia.

A word of advice, stick to the facts you can find an independent source for. Also, a section on the founder does not belong here. If he is notable, make a separate article for him. If he is not, than leave it out. Yoenit (talk) 11:46, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for your word of advice; an important part of sticking to facts is knowing them: Ely Callaway is deceased.

Demonstrably Superior, Pleasingly Different is a long-used company slogan that defined the company and culture. Omitting it is omitting valuable information about Callaway Golf that would help readers understand it.

You could ask anyone who knows anything about golf and they would agree that Big Bertha did indeed forever change the golf industry. The invention has often been compared to the change of leather to balata balls.

The company's early growth was explosive; I provided numbers to verify that claim; they were deleted.

Is a brand-new, highly automated manufacturing facility not correctly described as state-of-the-art?

You can find numerous references that describe Callaway Golf as "one of the most respected golf companies in the world." In fact, here's one from today: [1] Two For Mirth (talk) 12:22, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

Other than that one reference from a third party, how do you know that certain information is incorrect and that you have provided correct information? You appear to be a WP:SPA, and your first edit displayed a distinct familiarity with wikicode. Have you edited here before, and if so, with what ID? Thanks!   — Jeff G. ツ 18:39, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

To respond to your questions regarding incorrect information:

• A quick Google search reveals that Ely Callaway is deceased.
• The original Warbird golf ball pictured is no longer in the current product line; you can search the Callaway Golf website, and I can't find it in stores anymore.
• There were three, not two, original owners of Hickory Stick; again, Google.
• The Nationwide Tour is, indeed, a legitimate, recognized golfing organization - ESPN, PGATour.com.
• Arnold Palmer is an important name in golf. Ask anyone. Ditto Annika Sorenstam.
• The New York Times, a fairly well-known source, states in several stories, that Callaway Golf is world's largest maker of golf clubs.

The list goes on, but editors here have asked me to be concise.

Moving to your query about my past experience on Wikipedia and any previous IP: As a new editor, I appreciate your compliment on my "distinct familiarity" with "wikicode". Actually, that was my first-ever editing experience on Wikipedia. Quick study. :) However, my 1st edit was met with a characterization in vulgar terminology, and what I've come to know as a reverted edit. I've also just learned about the Wikipedia policy to "not bite newcomers." I plan to become much more familiar with the entire process, as you have now advised me - here by calling me a WP:SPA and also on my message page - that I am under increased scrutiny. You can be assured that I plan to take a very active and thorough interest in the Wikipedia process and policies, as well as this and other pages. Thanks for the welcome! Two For Mirth (talk) 20:21, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

Point by point:

• The article already states Ely "died of pancreatic cancer on July 5, 2001".
• The image is provided to show the Callaway brand, the fact that the product depicted is no longer produced is irrelevant.
• The article already states "Hickory Sticks was owned by Richard Parente and Dick De La Cruz". So Manzoni needs adding.
• This article is not about the Nationwide Tour. As discussed I limited it to players on the major tours, but would be happy to see the whole endorsements section go. Maybe replacing it with a paragraph detailing the major deals, which would be much easier to properly reference and maintain with the added bonus of not reading like the company website.
• Again, Palmer and Storenstam are not the subject of the article. This could be included in said paragraph.
• Callaway may be the largest clubmaker in the world, but what you added went much further than that in eulogizing everything about the company.

As mentioned previously I would also like to see the end of product lists. A section about particularly significant products would be much better, which in this case would start with the Big Bertha (which has it's own article already). _wjemather^bigissue 23:37, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

Imitation, Counterfeit, Callaway products

Does anyone think that it is worthy to include a section on the proliferation of phoney/imitation products on the market? I can speak from personal experience that it is somewhat endemic to (and an epidemic on) the internet. More importantly, Callaway Golf Co. mention counterfeit products on their website as a "consumer alert". Moreover, other sources (Golf Digest, Golf Magazine) also seem to deem the problem as noteworthy. So it is noteworthy to be included? Feedback. --GoetheFromm (talk) 12:32, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

References

Topgolf parent company

should callaway golf and topgolf callaway brands be separate pages ? Grmike (talk)

Agreed. I am going to suggest a rename, it makes no sense for the page not to be named simply Callaway Golf. Topgolf Callaway Brands Corp is the legal name of the holding company that has more subsidiaries. Wikisempra (talk)

New invention, better golf and TopGolf revenue maker!skygrpadv@yahoo.com

Have a golf tee/ training device and golf game all in one product…. Can someone contact me Eric: skygrpadv@yahoo.com 2600:1005:B018:CF31:3456:11AF:C0DA:E03D (talk) 21:34, 7 November 2022 (UTC)

Move: New name - Callaway Golf, not the full legal name.

Topgolf Callaway Brands Corp is the legal name, in an attempt of simplification, it makes sense to have the article named Callaway Golf. Wikisempra (talk) 14:54, 12 November 2022 (UTC)

@Wikisempra: Please follow the instructions at WP:RM. _wjemather^{please leave a message...} 17:38, 12 November 2022 (UTC)