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Archive 1

MSIE madness

I got the pictures to look correct in Microsoft Internet explorer. It would seem that putting it in a div with CSS commands for it to float on the right was not honored by IE (or, at least, IE5, which is what I'm testing it on). However, putting the images in a table makes it so IE decides to float the images on the right. Go figure. Samboy 06:07, 5 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:CSU.PNG

Image:CSU.PNG is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 03:57, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

Formerly Fresno State College?

Was this university formerly called Fresno State College? If so, this should be added to the article. Badagnani (talk) 05:30, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Split out alumni lists

I'm not sure who, or when, but someone suggested splitting out the list of alumni and former atheletes into a seperate List of California State University, Frenso alumni article. Let me say, with the huge size of the lists, that this is a good idea. Gentgeen (talk) 15:15, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

WP CSU

 Hello, I noticed your recent edits and thought you might want to become a member of the California State University WikiProject. We've recently revamped the project page and started a drive to improve California State University-related articles. We have a lot of articles under our project and would like assistance getting them to good article status. Hope you'll join us. Go STATE!

--Dabackgammonator (talk) 05:48, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

infobox logo removal/inclusion

A discussion regarding logo removal/inclusion that occurred during a recent edit to this article is ongoing at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Universities#Logo as identifying marks in infoboxes. CrazyPaco (talk) 19:05, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

Length of and content in lead

A few days ago, I trimmed the lead of this article from 9 paragraphs to 2. An unregistered editor has reverted this edit without comment or explanation. Can others please chime in with thoughts and opinions? Thanks! ElKevbo (talk) 20:19, 22 August 2013 (UTC)

In a related edit, the same editor (now editing as User:Fredin323) has put the same rankings twice in the Academics section and restores the duplicate rankings when removed. There is a problem with WP:BOOSTERISM in general with this user's edits, but there is no discussion other than this threat to continue to edit war. Bahooka (talk) 16:29, 10 September 2013 (UTC)

Bold font in rankings

The use of bold fonts continues to be added back to the rankings as a way to highlight the numbers. Per MOS:BOLD, this is improper use of bold fonts on Wikipedia. I invite User:Fredin323 to explain his actions here. This is a continuation of WP:BOOSTERISM issues. Bahooka (talk) 19:34, 3 October 2013 (UTC)

Crime section

The section on crime continues to be removed even though it is the most current statistic available (2011) and is considered current in an encyclopedia. User:Fredin323, please discuss why 2011 data in a negative area are outdated but a 2003 positive ranking on a stadium is not. If the information is removed because it may be considered WP:UNDUE, that is something else and should be discussed here on the talk page. Bahooka (talk) 20:59, 3 October 2013 (UTC)

I removed the crime info because it is from 2011 and ooutdated. I also removed a statistic from 2003 because it is also outdated, as you suggested. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Fredin323 (talk • contribs) 02:55, 4 October 2013 (UTC)
You've extensively and egregiously edit warred to remove information that isn't outdated in the least. It's quite likely that the 2011 data are the most recent available and at best they're only slightly outdated. By what standard is 2011 data dramatically outdated when we're not even through with 2013??? ElKevbo (talk) 03:45, 4 October 2013 (UTC)
I've added the Crime section back per WP:BRD (Fredin323 was bold in deleting, others reverted, now it is discussed). It should stay in the article until this discussion is resolved. The reference is less than one year old, so it is clearly not outdated. Bahooka (talk) 04:51, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

Can we please have a discussion regarding the Crime section? Can we please try to come to a consensus on whether or not a statistic from 2011 is still relevant and necessary to include on the Fresno State page in 2014? Thanks. Fredin323 — Preceding undated comment added 06:51, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

Yes, a statistic from 2011 is current (see my statement at the beginning of this section from last October). It is both current and the most recent statistic from the FBI. It is notable and should stay. Fred, you've tried removing this before. The reasons for keeping it remain the same. Bahooka (talk) 15:12, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

Library Size

Another user is disputing the claim that Fresno State has the third largest library in the CSU system. While I do see the link this user has posted here, it just simply says the library is the largest, and does not provide any other size facts. This is also provided by the Student Affairs - Outreach at Fresno State, which isn't entirely resourceful (this would be a more resourceful claim if it were coming directly from the library itself).

San Diego State University does in fact have the largest library in the CSU system at 500,000 square feet. This is factually displayed on several cites, including the library's OWN site, and the main Cal State site.[1][2] In fact, the sites (including the main Cal State one) say the SDSU library is the largest in the CSU.

The Fresno State Library is the third largest in fact the third largest in the CSU. Fresno State's library sits at 350,000 square feet.[3]

What is peculiar about the Fresno State links is they all seem to dispute it is either the THIRD largest, or the LARGEST. But when you compare square footage (actual size), SDSU is in fact the largest. I have not found a link that states SDSU is not the largest library.--Uwatch310 (talk) 02:37, 15 March 2014 (UTC)

Interestingly, the University Auditor of the Cal State system states on Page 3 of their audit report that Fresno is the largest library in the CSU system. Bahooka (talk) 14:42, 15 March 2014 (UTC)

Exactly. The University Auditor of the California State University clearly states that Fresno State now has the largest library in the entire CSU system. (Apparently the SDSU alum who keeps deleting this relevant fact is not aware of the recent expansion of the Madden Library). Because of this verified source and the other source I noted, I will be changing my revision to correctly state this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Fredin323 (talk • contribs) 19:38, 15 March 2014 (UTC)

I don't think you get it. WITH the expansion of the CSUF library, it is at 328,000 square feet, according to that audit report from 2010. However, multiple sources (from SDSU, and the CSU system) state that the SDSU library is 500,000 square feet, and also claim it is the largest. 500,000 > 328,000. Thus, according to sources, SDSU is larger in size. Also, please do NOT undue edits and add this into the article until a consensus on this talk page is reached - or you risk being blocked. Thank you.--Uwatch310 (talk) 23:47, 15 March 2014 (UTC)

Fresno State's library is the biggest in terms of volumes and media research sources, not actual square footage. I see no problem stating the truth, that Fresno State's library is biggest in terms of volumes, especially if I can site sources proving it. Agreed? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Fredin323 (talk • contribs) 16:36, 16 March 2014 (UTC)

But that's my point, in terms of volumes (another measurable size in libraries) it is not the largest. SDSU has over 2 million volumes - well over the largest in the CSU system.[4][5] According to the most recent CSU Library Statistics Report, Fresno State has about 1.15 million volumes (as of 2013). SDSU (2.2 million volumes), Sacramento State (1.4 million volumes), CSUN (1.4 million volumes), Cal State Fullerton (1.3 million volumes), SJSU (1.3 million volumes), and CSULA (1.2 million volumes) are all larger. SDSU is a research university, thus if you look at their library expenditures (greater than $12 million), library size (greater than 500,000), and library staffing (largest in CSU), this would explain why it is the largest in size - yet unparalleled, SDSU isn't the largest school in terms of enrollment or acreage.--Uwatch310 (talk) 20:24, 16 March 2014 (UTC)

So you are telling me that if I cite sources saying Fresno State's newly renovated library is now the biggest in terms of volumes and media resources you are going to once again delete it? Even if I cite the two different sources? Did it ever occur to you that you might not be citing the most recent information? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Fredin323 (talk • contribs) 21:56, 16 March 2014 (UTC)

Personally, I would just leave the claim off both articles. "It's not a score board or horse race" per WP:BOOSTER. Bahooka (talk) 22:16, 16 March 2014 (UTC)
I don't understand the discrepancy here. Even the "most recent" sources provided for Fresno State say it is 328,000 square feet - while SDSU's library is 500,000 square feet. In terms of number of volumes (using the most recent sources), SDSU's libraries have 2.2 million, while Fresno State has 1.15. Just because a website or two say it is the largest, doesn't necessarily mean it's set in stone correct. There are mistakes made all the time.--Uwatch310 (talk) 22:24, 16 March 2014 (UTC)

I am changing it back to "one of the biggest libraries in the CSU system" and will continue to monitor the article and repost it should Uwatch310 decide to once again delete it. This is fair, accurate, and within the scope and purpose of Wikipedia. If I can find other definitive evidence it is the biggest (despite already possessing official CSUF statistics readily viewable for anyone with internet access) I will take this matter up again on this Talk page. Until that time, I will once again post it as "one of the biggest." — Preceding unsigned comment added by Fredin323 (talk • contribs) 15:34, 18 March 2014 (UTC)

Go ahead, but it will be deleted - and thus you will be risked being blocked. You are defying the protocol of Wikipedia by posting false information at this point. I have given MORE than enough sources (from SDSU, CSUF, and the California State University system website) which shows SDSU has more volumes (2.2 million) than Fresno State (1.15 million), and is larger than Fresno State in square footage (SDSU = 500,000, while Fresno State = 328,000). On what grounds then do you see it the other way?--Uwatch310 (talk) 15:38, 18 March 2014 (UTC)
Fredin323 wants to insert "one of the biggest libraries in the CSU system", not "the biggest". While I still feel the boosterism is unnecessary, even if there are conflicting references about being the largest, it seems clear that it is among the largest. Bahooka (talk) 15:42, 18 March 2014 (UTC)
Thank you for clarifying, I read quickly and missed that part...I apologize! I don't take issue with the claim of it being one of the largest - that seems true off the several sources provided. That being "boosterism" is another whole issue.--Uwatch310 (talk) 16:12, 18 March 2014 (UTC)
One of the largest? Yes and no. It is not even in the top-five in terms of volumes and titles, a distant fourth in terms of operating budget/revenue, and a distant third in terms of physical size (square footage). I think it's fairly clear to everyone here Fredin323 is not credible, but I'm willing to give this user the benefit of the doubt if he/she will stop ignoring talk page consensus and idiotic edit warring. UnderdogU (talk) 23:59, 21 April 2014 (UTC)
Madden Library was renovated and expanded in 2009. Based on public data released by the CSU for 2012-2013 (four years AFTER completion of the Madden remodel/expansion), the CSU libraries rank in the following order:
Total number of titles:
1) SDSU: 6.62 million
2) Chico: 3.94 million
3) SJSU: 1.44 million
4) Northridge: 1.35 million
5) Sacramento: 1.24 million
6) Fresno: 1.23 million
Total number of volumes:
1) Long Beach: 2.61 million
2) SDSU: 2.24 million
3) Northridge: 2.07 million
4) Sacramento: 1.48 million
5) SJSU: 1.47 million
6) Fullerton: 1.35 million
7) Fresno: 1.17 million
Total library expenditures:
1) Northridge: $9.89 million
2) SDSU: $9.48 million
3) SJSU: $9.0 million
4) Fresno: $6.10 million
Total staff personnel:
1) Northrdige: 130
2) SDSU: 106
3) SJSU: 91
4) Fresno: 73
Square footage:
1) SDSU: 510K
2) SJSU: 475K
3) Fresno: 365K


Boosterism. LOL. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Fredin323 (talk • contribs) 19:22, 18 March 2014 (UTC)

LOL? I was referring to Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Words to watch and Wikipedia:Avoid academic boosterism. Words like "boast" are weasel words and should be avoided. And please sign your posts using four tildes. Bahooka (talk) 20:17, 18 March 2014 (UTC)

I would like to state for the record that I was apparently mistaken in my claim that Fresno State had the largest library in the CSU system. I read an article stating that it was but after looking into other user's statistics and through my own further research I found that Fresno State is only one of the biggest - not THE biggest. I modified that and I apologize for writing something that turned out to be inaccurate. Fredin323 — Preceding undated comment added 06:34, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ http://sdsulibrary.wordpress.com/about/
  2. ^ https://www.calstate.edu/qi/Newsletters/Highlights/SDSULibrary.shtml
  3. ^ http://collegian.csufresno.edu/2009/03/04/new-library-goes-green/comment-page-1/
  4. ^ http://asir.sdsu.edu/Addtl_info_13_14.pdf
  5. ^ http://www.calstate.edu/library/content/statistics/documents/2011-2012LibraryStatisticsReport.pdf

Student Demographics

The student demographics data is inaccurate for many reasons. It does not distinguish between undergrad, grad, post-grad populations and more importantly, 9.7% identify their race as "Unknown." Unknown is not a race. Information on race is not necessary, important information and the vast majority of Wikipedia university pages leave that out. If information is deemed to be "encyclopedic," then it must be accurate and reflect the actual population. 9.7% as "Unknown" is not a good indicator of that. That's why I am deleting it. If there were information in which a significantly less amount of respondents chose to not identify as "Unknown" I would consider leaving that on the page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Fredin323 (talk • contribs) 15:28, 25 March 2014 (UTC)

Student body demographic data pertaining to race is in fact encyclopedic and literally every other CSU Wiki article includes it. CalStateWatch (talk) 17:29, 11 April 2014 (UTC)
I agree that these data are useful and worth including. I understand some of Fredin323's points about the shortcoming's of the data but the charge of racism is beyond ridiculous. It's quite unseemly for him or her to edit war over this quite standard and innocuous data. ElKevbo (talk) 01:49, 12 April 2014 (UTC)
As long as the demographics are used in the right context I don't see an issue with their inclusion however if there is an unnecessary focus on one ethnic group over another, then its possible undue weight has been given to the source. Flat Out let's discuss it 09:21, 12 April 2014 (UTC)
Showing student demographics are also acceptable to me. I also do not understand why the information on being an Hispanic-serving institution (per the Department of Education) keeps being removed. It simply means they have "an enrollment of undergraduate full-time equivalent students that is at least 25 percent Hispanic" and the university actually had to "apply for and receive designation through an application process" (see the Dept. of Education website here.) Bahooka (talk) 14:09, 12 April 2014 (UTC)
Bahooka has it also received designation for other groups too.. that's the question as I see it. Flat Out let's discuss it 14:27, 12 April 2014 (UTC)
Then those should be added rather than the HSI removed. I'm not familiar with the other designations and did not see those on the Fresno State website, but they do have a page on HSI here. Bahooka (talk) 14:51, 12 April 2014 (UTC)
Yes but they would need to be added together, rather than one being given undue weight. Flat Out let's discuss it 15:00, 12 April 2014 (UTC)
If they exist. I do not see any evidence that they do. The HSI designation was one sought for by the university and approved by the U.S. Department of Education. Why would it not be included? Bahooka (talk) 15:03, 12 April 2014 (UTC)
Fredin323 suggested they existed in this edit summary. Flat Out let's discuss it 15:06, 12 April 2014 (UTC)
I know he did. He did not provide any references to back up his assertion and I could not find any. I can only assume that he is mistaken regarding any kind of official designation and that they do not exist. Bahooka (talk) 15:11, 12 April 2014 (UTC)

To the best of my knowledge, there is no such thing as a "Af-Am serving institution." The closest similar designations would be Historically Black College and University (HBCUs) and Predominantly Black Institution (PBIs) and this university clearly doesn't fit either designation (but you can go to that website and check the lists yourself if you'd like). There is a designation similar to what Fredin called "native-american serving institution" and that is Native American-Serving, Nontribal Institution but as far as I can tell this university doesn't have that designation, either. So unless I'm missing something - please let me know if I am! - Fredin's assertion that "it is also designated at a Af-Am serving institution and a native-american serving institution" is incorrect.

That leaves us with the second half of Fredin's rationale for removing this material: "singling out Hispanics is racist and unnecessary. this is not an article about race." First, we're not singling out Hispanics, merely including a relevant federal designation that indicates that this university enrolls an unusually high percentage of Hispanic/Latino students compared to most other colleges and universities. That in itself is an interesting fact given the history of higher education enrollment and success by that large and rapidly growing population. Second, adding information to this article about the race and ethnicity of students doesn't make the article "about race" in any meaningful, rational sense. Race and ethnicity are important parts of historical and contemporary U.S. society and culture. In fact, colleges and universities that participate in federal financial aid - which is virtually all of them - are required by law to collect and report information about the race and ethnicity of students. Including that information in articles is very common and unless it's done so poorly and with undue emphasis it's merely including important information that is relevant and of interest to many readers.

I could understand an objection that this information doesn't need to be included in the lead and should be moved to a relevant section in the body of the article. But the grounds for objecting to the information given thus far are untrue and misleading at best. I propose adding the information back to the article. ElKevbo (talk) 17:23, 12 April 2014 (UTC)

I wholeheartedly agree with your rationale that the demographic information should be added back - it is indeed very common, relevant and of interest to many readers. Leaving it out is a disservice.Contributor321 (talk) 23:04, 17 April 2014 (UTC)
Fredin323's objection to including the demographic data is that "9.7% identify their race as "Unknown." Unknown is not a race.... If information is deemed to be "encyclopedic," then it must be accurate and reflect the actual population. 9.7% as "Unknown" is not a good indicator of that. That's why I am deleting it." But take note that the category is NOT labeled just "Unknown"; it's actually "Other/Unknown". The categories in the data table do not include one for "2 or more races" or "multi-racial", as many other demographic tables do. So it's not a case of 9.7% of the students not identifying their race and therefore the rest of the data is inaccurate or suspect - it's that students of 2 or more races, lacking a category they can specifically identify with, choose "Other/Unknown" as the most accurate designation.Contributor321 (talk) 17:29, 18 April 2014 (UTC)

I am not aware how one person claims a "consensus" has been formed on this subject, as one or two people (who may well be, in fact, the same person with different usernames), but I disagree that a "consensus" claims that the student demographic data, in its present form, is either necessary or accurate information. Unknown or Other does not constitute a race. Come on people, in this day and age race is truly a non-issue. It shouldn't matter one bit. Why include it. Why. As I stated before, the vast majority of Wikipedia university pages do not include student demographic data so why insist on one? True, so some of the CSU campuses have it. Does that mean the majority of American, Canadian, or British universities do as well? Of course not. I wholeheartedly disagree that a "consensus" has been formed on this subject.

Also, regarding Fresno State being a HSI, how does that belong in the Academics section? How does HSI have anything to do with Academics, i.e., rankings, majors offered, etc.? It doesn't. NO CONSENSUS HERE. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Fredin323 (talk • contribs) 05:07, 21 April 2014 (UTC)

Look at this section of the talk page and you can see that there is a consensus to include the student demographic statistics. You are continuing to edit war right after being blocked for doing the same thing. And as far as the HSI designation, my edit summary indicated that it may not be the right section. However, it should be included. Move it instead of deleting it. Bahooka (talk) 05:23, 21 April 2014 (UTC)
Regarding student demographic data, Fredin323 states "True, so some of the CSU campuses have it." This is an understatement. For the record, 22 out of 23 CSU-school Wikipedia articles contain demographic data collected by the schools themselves (only the CSU Bakersfield article currently does not include the data). It seems to me that if demographic information is important enough for the schools to collect the data and make it public, it's important enough to include in the article.Contributor321 (talk) 13:58, 21 April 2014 (UTC)
Does anyone find Fredin323's efforts to conceal demographic date rather suspicious? He/she recklessly accuses others of racism, yet this user appears to want to conceal CSUF's high Hispanic enrollment. What gives? Ethnic demographic data is relevant and encyclopedic and while it may not be of interest to Fredin323, it is to many other readers. This is why ethnic demographic data is INCLUDED in the vast majority of public university Wiki articles and virtually all but one Cal State Wiki article. What would it take to ban this character's IP? The edit warring is irksome... and it started long before the demographic date flap with his/her insistence that the CSUF library is the largest in the CSU system when all of the most recent official data clearly show it's not even in the top five in terms of the number of volumes, budget, staffing, etc. This user's behavior here is destructive and runs absolutely contrary to Wiki ideals. UnderdogU (talk) 20:38, 21 April 2014 (UTC)

Actually, Fred is right when he claims "most universities do not include" student demographic data. I agree that it is irrelevant. I have started doing Wiki research on random US university pages and most, in fact, do not include it. San Diego State and San Jose State do, however, so yes, it is true that other CSU pages do. However, does that mean it is really needed? Also, why does Fresno State being a HSI belong in the Academics section? How exactly does HSI mean "Academic?" — Preceding unsigned comment added by Chessandcheckers (talk • contribs) 17:21, 22 April 2014 (UTC)

Again - 22 out of 23 CSU-school Wikipedia articles contain demographic data collected by the schools themselves (only the CSU Bakersfield article currently does not include the data). It seems to me that if demographic information is important enough for the schools to collect and make public, it's important enough to include in the encyclopedia articles. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Contributor321 (talk • contribs) 17:48, 22 April 2014 (UTC)
I agree demographic data like this, including info about the HSI designation, does not belong in the Academics section. The demographics data table, for sure, belongs in a student-related section. That's where all the other CSU articles place it, and a quick check of the Cal and UCLA Wiki articles show it in the "student body" and "admissions" sections respectively. ChessAndCheckers: your repeated claim (under various user names) that "most" university articles don't include this data is false. The vast majority of public universities in California, at least, DO include this data. Why? Because a university's ethnic profile is of interest to the average reader, is encyclopedic and relevant. UnderdogU (talk) 21:41, 22 April 2014 (UTC)
Once again, repeated assertions by the same user under different aliases that "most" university Wiki articles don't include ethnic demographic data is FALSE. Out of all 23 Cal State articles, 22 contain this data. Nine University of California articles (including the ones for Berkeley and UCLA) contain this data, the USC and Stanford articles both contain this data, as do most major public university articles including the U of Michigan, UT-Austin, the University of Alabama, Penn State and the University of Florida, to name only a few I checked randomly. Also, many of the Ivy League articles include this data including the one for Harvard. UnderdogU (talk) 22:04, 22 April 2014 (UTC)

Actually, all the university pages I have seen do not mention race. UnderdogU claims Fresno State should include race-based data because U of Michigan or UT-Austin do. Those are national universities (as defined by US News & World Report) - HUGE differrence. Most regional universities (as defined by US News & World Report's rankings) such as Fresno State do not include race-based statistics. I repeat, the majority of universities in both the regional university category and the majority of Wikipedia university pages in general DO NOT MENTION RACE. Here's an example of a U of Michigan/UT Austin-level university that does not include race: The University of Wisconsin, Madison - a much better ranked university and more well known than Fresno State, does not include race-based demographic data. So you see, if you can name ones that do, I can name ones that do not.

Here's a very short, random list of regional universities ranked similar to Fresno State in reputation, category, majors offered, etc. that do not include race: University of Nevada, Reno Loyola Marymount University California Lutheran University

Why mention race? Why be race-conscious in our modern day? Are we not wanting to be working towards living in a color-blind society? That's what I want. That's what most educated people want. So, there is definitely no consensus here as to include it or not. Making the false. slanderous assertion that anyone who agrees with me is actually me (which is laughable) is downright bullying. Fredin323 — Preceding undated comment added 06:27, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

Please keep in mind that what you, I, or any editor "wants" as a societal objective is irrelevant to a Wikipedia article, no matter how noble or laudable it is. It may be helpful to you to read what Wikpedia is not at WP:SOAP. Contributor321 (talk) 20:43, 25 April 2014 (UTC)

UnderdogU claims that racial data is "is of interest to the average reader." What exactly is the average reader? Has UnderdogU met all so-called "average readers" to ascertain this assumption for himself/herself? Obviously not. I can say that racial statistics is of not interest to me, and I am not more or less "average" than anyone else. There is no consensus on including divisive information such as race. Fredin323 — Preceding undated comment added 06:39, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

You state "I can say that racial statistics is of not interest to me." So if they are of no interest to you, then by definition you should not care at all whether the statistics are included or excluded. Yet you passionately and repeatedly argue that they have no place in the article. There is a confusing contradiction here. Perhaps I'm misunderstanding something. Can you clarify?. Thanks. Contributor321 (talk) 21:14, 25 April 2014 (UTC)

Hispanic-serving institution designation

Fresno State applied for and received a designation from the Federal government as an Hispanic-serving institution (see here). Only 244 universities have received this designation, 15 of them CSU campuses. This seems to be an important designation and should be included in the Fresno State article. There is no policy or guideline that I am aware of disallowing the mention of race (or ethnicity in this case) in the lead section, especially as most Historically black colleges and universities mention race in the very first sentence. I think it should be included and the only question is where in the article to put it. Thanks, Bahooka (talk) 00:03, 23 April 2014 (UTC)

My suggestion would be to place it under Academics, make it the third paragraph. LionMans Account (talk) 15:37, 23 April 2014 (UTC)

Bahooka, your insistence on including Fresno State's status as a Hispanic Serving Institution (HSI) is race-conscious, divisive, and racist. If you actually took the time to do your research, you would know that Fresno State is ALSO a AANAPISI (Asian American Native American Pacific Islander Serving Institution, as designated by the Federal Government. I am sure you don't believe me so here is the link: http://www.fresnostate.edu/kremen/ncate/overview/institution.html. You are going to have to actually take the time to scroll to the Unique Characteristics section to read for yourself. You make NO MENTION of this yet you go so far as to insinuate anyone else who also agrees race should be left out of this is actually me. Your insistence that Fresno State's page include HSI but not AANAPISI makes one conclude you are giving UNFAIR WEIGHT TO HISPANICS, and this was mentioned in the section above. You need to focus on what is really relevant and important here, and it is not the color of a person's skin. For the record, I think the need to even mention race on a university page is antiquated. I believe in a race-blind society where people are equal. Why even be concerned with race. Why. Fredin323 — Preceding undated comment added 06:06, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

The article should include both the HSI and AANAPISI designations. Fred, you are getting VERY close to calling me a racist, which is an egregious violation of the Wikipedia:No personal attacks policy. And please find the tilde key on your keyboard and sign your posts. Bahooka (talk) 15:53, 24 April 2014 (UTC)
Chessandcheckers removed the sourced content again right after coming off a block for edit warring. I am fine with moving the HSA and AANAPISI designations to another place in the article, but not removing it completely. LionMans Account suggested it as a third paragraph under Academics. Is there a better place than that? Bahooka (talk) 21:21, 29 April 2014 (UTC)
I took the liberty of moving them to the Accreditation section because (1) I don't believe they're significant enough for the Intro and (2) the AANAPISI source is titled "NCATE Accreditation", so why not be consistent? Contributor321 (talk) 23:52, 29 April 2014 (UTC)
No, I think it belongs in the student life section or moved up to be paired with the table of student data (I'm also fine with it being briefly mentioned in the lead).
And I'm still sure about the AANAPISI designation. The cited source is the institution's NCATE self-study but the current listing on the federal Dept of Education's website doesn't seem to substantiate the claim made by the people in the university's teacher education programs who wrote the self-study. Maybe I'm looking in the wrong place or maybe one or both of the documents are dated and out of sync but I'm not comfortable including a fact that is only substantiated by a self-published document and contradicted by an authoritative source. Attributing the claim is one option but it doesn't seem to be a good one in this instance so it should just be omitted. ElKevbo (talk) 01:39, 30 April 2014 (UTC)
I did find the Dept. of Education's designation of Fresno State as an AANAPISI at the ed.gov website. Click to the Word document at the link that says "2010 List of AANAPISI Designees". Bahooka (talk) 15:09, 6 May 2014 (UTC)

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