Talk:Cabinet of Zoran Milanović
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List of Ministers
[edit]Timbouctou, why are you edit waring? Please stop. This is not the way to edit Wikipedia, you are ignoring my notifications? Why? Why did you not go to the talk page? This is not the first time you started a edit war. Why? Adding Budget column is a good edition to the article and also accurate. If you think otherwise go here on talk and resolve. Please stop this. --Tuvixer (talk) 17:22, 19 April 2015 (UTC)
- It is neither accurate nor is it "good addition" - otherwise all cabinet tables would have them. It is actually very very far from "accurate" as a) budgets get re-balanced in Croatia about 2-3 times every year, b) the kuna is a meaningless currency for readers of English Wikipedia, and it is unclear which rate should one use to turn these numbers into dollars or euros as there is no date for these numbers, c) there is no date because there is no source, and even if there was one, how would you update the budget after the usual budget reshuffles mid-year? Also, what kind of relation do ministers have to their ministry budgets? What about ministers who were appointed after the budget had been set? What purpose does this even illustrate? And why should we even have a column that cannot be applied to all other cabinet pages for all other previous governments? And last but not least - if this was a good idea everyone would use it. Just becaause you decided this was a good idea does not make it so. We might as well list their shoe sizes and iPhone models. Or the cars they own, or maybe frequent flier miles they accumulated. Because hey why not. Timbouctou (talk) 17:31, 19 April 2015 (UTC)
- Now you are willing to talk? Hm, ok...
- Quote: "We might as well list their shoe sizes and iPhone models. Or the cars they own, or maybe frequent flier miles they accumulated."
- Is this the way to discuss on Wikipedia? Be serious please and stop edit warring. Ok? Be constructive. If a reference is a problem then don't revert the article, just ask for a reference to be put in the article. The budget is about the Ministries, the table is not jet done because it still does not contains the former members/ministers. It will be done. --Tuvixer (talk) 17:43, 19 April 2015 (UTC)
- You still failed to explain the relevance of budgets for an article which is supposed to be a list of ministers. And why do you think their shoe sizes do not matter? Timbouctou (talk) 17:48, 19 April 2015 (UTC)
- Again, it is linked to the portfolios. Comparing shoe sizes with the country budget just shows your ignorance. --Tuvixer (talk) 17:52, 19 April 2015 (UTC)
- How is it "linked" to their portfolios? Again, this article is about the cabinet and its members. Not budgets. You have eleven other examples of what cabinet articles look like. None of them has budgets in it. Nor shoe sizes. Timbouctou (talk) 17:55, 19 April 2015 (UTC)
- Again, it is linked to the portfolios. Comparing shoe sizes with the country budget just shows your ignorance. --Tuvixer (talk) 17:52, 19 April 2015 (UTC)
- You still failed to explain the relevance of budgets for an article which is supposed to be a list of ministers. And why do you think their shoe sizes do not matter? Timbouctou (talk) 17:48, 19 April 2015 (UTC)
- It shows how the cabinet distributed budget money to the Ministries. It should be shown only for the current Cabinet, not for the former cabinets. but if that is a problem I can also do that.
- But face it, you are only against this just to harass me. You have done and are doing the same thing on other articles. Please stop. It is not nice. --Tuvixer (talk) 18:00, 19 April 2015 (UTC)
- Paranoia is not healthy you know. As for the topic of this discussion - you are introducing a wholly original concept here, one that has not been used anywhere else, and one that is difficult to pull off in an encyclopedic manner. Again, this article is not about Croatian state budgets, it is about the cabinet. That kind of information is entirely irrelevant here, and would be a nightmare to update properly. At best, ministry budgets (properly sourced and explained) belong in the Croatian Government article. In addition, you do not seem to comprehend the collaborative nature of Wikipedia. Timbouctou (talk) 18:03, 19 April 2015 (UTC)
- Why are you ignoring what I have said? It is about the budget of 2015 that has been distributed to this cabinet, or by this cabinet, however you like it. It is relevant. I am shocked that you don't see that or are you not willing to accept that? What nightmare? It is all transparent. I can put here the link. --Tuvixer (talk) 18:09, 19 April 2015 (UTC)
- This article is supposed to be relevant in 2,3 or 5 years' time. How much will kuna be worth then? How will anyone make sense of the meaningless nine-figure kuna amounts? And what happens when a cabinet, during its 4 years in office, has four budgets, each one reshuffled two or three times every year, with some ministers replaced by others in the meantime? Not even the official government website has enough people to keep track of this, and you want to cram this marginally relevant piece of information into an article that does not and never has dealt with budgets. Who cares what the budgets are, this is not a local newspaper. We might as well add how many employees each ministry has, or how many cars each ministry uses, or how many laptops and pens they plan to buy this year. Timbouctou (talk) 18:17, 19 April 2015 (UTC)
- ???? The article will be changed, and when this cabinet is dissolved so will be the budget column removed, and a new column will be created in the next cabinet. This is a column that is up to date. The budget is reshuffled maybe one a year. So the table will be updated after that. What is the problem? You are catching at straws. Please stop insulting me. --Tuvixer (talk) 18:35, 19 April 2015 (UTC)
- Well, you need consensus for such content changes, and currently you don't have it. I'd be surprised if you got it considering how much workload you plan to burden cabinet articles with - and like I told you before, and like you ignored it before - the budget thing may belong to the Government of Croatia article, but nowhere else. The cabinet article is intended to talk about its composition, dates, and issues the cabinet had to deal with. Nothing more, nothing less. And take your egocentric paranoia elsewhere. Timbouctou (talk) 18:47, 19 April 2015 (UTC)
- ???? The article will be changed, and when this cabinet is dissolved so will be the budget column removed, and a new column will be created in the next cabinet. This is a column that is up to date. The budget is reshuffled maybe one a year. So the table will be updated after that. What is the problem? You are catching at straws. Please stop insulting me. --Tuvixer (talk) 18:35, 19 April 2015 (UTC)
- This article is supposed to be relevant in 2,3 or 5 years' time. How much will kuna be worth then? How will anyone make sense of the meaningless nine-figure kuna amounts? And what happens when a cabinet, during its 4 years in office, has four budgets, each one reshuffled two or three times every year, with some ministers replaced by others in the meantime? Not even the official government website has enough people to keep track of this, and you want to cram this marginally relevant piece of information into an article that does not and never has dealt with budgets. Who cares what the budgets are, this is not a local newspaper. We might as well add how many employees each ministry has, or how many cars each ministry uses, or how many laptops and pens they plan to buy this year. Timbouctou (talk) 18:17, 19 April 2015 (UTC)
- Why are you ignoring what I have said? It is about the budget of 2015 that has been distributed to this cabinet, or by this cabinet, however you like it. It is relevant. I am shocked that you don't see that or are you not willing to accept that? What nightmare? It is all transparent. I can put here the link. --Tuvixer (talk) 18:09, 19 April 2015 (UTC)
- Paranoia is not healthy you know. As for the topic of this discussion - you are introducing a wholly original concept here, one that has not been used anywhere else, and one that is difficult to pull off in an encyclopedic manner. Again, this article is not about Croatian state budgets, it is about the cabinet. That kind of information is entirely irrelevant here, and would be a nightmare to update properly. At best, ministry budgets (properly sourced and explained) belong in the Croatian Government article. In addition, you do not seem to comprehend the collaborative nature of Wikipedia. Timbouctou (talk) 18:03, 19 April 2015 (UTC)
The figures, if they are to be introduced, need to be #1 sourced, #2 dated, #3 listed in euros probably(?). Also, they might benefit from a small table of their own, but that's subjective. Timbouctou, WP:BITE... the figures can go to into both articles and you can't possibly claim they're out of scope: its a free encyclopedia. -- Director (talk) 05:08, 21 April 2015 (UTC)
- Ok, source is no problem. Why dated? I mean, it is the budget for 2015, it is the law, it can not be changed unless the law has been changed and that needs a parliament procedure. Maybe better to put a reference next to "kn" that states what is the exchange rate? --Tuvixer (talk) 09:14, 21 April 2015 (UTC)
- "Dated" meaning that the article must state when the budget dates from. -- Director (talk) 18:26, 21 April 2015 (UTC)
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