Talk:Cabinet of Israel

Surely Tzipi Livni is the Vice Prime Minister, not the Acting Prime Minister- her personal article says so? If there is no reason for the mix I'll change it.

Outdated

almost every minister in the article is no longer minister or switched postions Stalwart Mugwump (talk) 21:48, 16 January 2020 (UTC)

Oh, the confusion

Whoever wrote the above posted it as I was writing what appears below. Please note that if this person has indeed changed the article as suggested above, the description of what this article says is based on what it said before it was changed. Also please note that the reason Tzipi Livni's article describes her as "Vice Prime Minister" is because I added that title on the day the new Cabinet was sworn in, based on the information on one of the sites described below. I have now discovered that this information is not necessarily correct, but I have not changed it again because there appears to be a genuine conflict in sources that needs to be cleared up.

In reading various articles on the Internet (including Wikipedia) about the new Israeli government, including some that have links to various portions of the Israeli government web site, I have become aware that the government web site has at least three different versions of who has what title immediately subordinate to the Prime Minster.

This article (Cabinet of Israel) lists the following:

• Tzipi Livni, Acting Prime Minster
• Shimon Peres, Vice Prime Minister
• Amir Peretz, Deputy Prime Minister
• Eli Yishai, Deputy Prime Minister
• Shaul Mofaz, Deputy Prime Minister

(I will not mention Peretz, Yishai or Mofaz again, as all of the sources list them as Depty Prime Ministers.)

This article has an external link to Official government list and updates, however, that article (from the Israel Ministry of Foreign Affairs official site) does not list Livni as "Acting Prime Minister." It lists her as "Vice Prime Minister," while listing Shimon Peres above her as "Vice Premier."

The section of Israel's government web site covering the Knesset also has a page listing the Cabinet [1], but this page lists Livni as "Vice Prime Minister" without mentioning Peres as having any title other than his Ministry portfolio.

The section of Israel's government web site that is apparently under the Prime Minister's Office has yet another page listing the Cabinet [2] and this page lists Peres as Vice Prime Minister and then Livni as Acting Prime Minister. (Which is what this article currently says.)

Which of course leads one to ask:

• Which is correct?
• Why does an official government web site have three different versions of the same facts?
• Is there really a title of "Acting Prime Minister" when the Prime Minister is not incapacitated? Or does it simply mean that Peres and Livni are both Vice Prime Ministers but that Livni is the one designated to take over as Acting Prime Minister should the need arise? And if this is correct, does Livni "rank higher" than Peres, even though two of the three "official" lists mention Peres first?
• Is there a distinction between Vice Prime Minister and Vice Premier?

My suggestion is that until this is cleared up, the various articles about these individuals (and the one on Deputy Leader of Israel) be left as they are now, because anyone who edits them to conform to something on the official web site, or another Wikipedia article, has as good a chance of changing a correct statement into an incorrect statement, as the reverse. 6SJ7 16:44, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

One person's solution

After receiving advice to "quote all the sources," I have edited the articles on Livni and Peres to indicate that there is some confusion, with 2 of the 3 sources cited in a footnote in the article on Livni, and all 3 cited in a footnote in the article on Peres. I am not going to change what appears in this article until some corroboration of one of the possible answers is found. At least now, this article and the one on Livni are not directly at odds with each other, as the anonymous editor who beat me to the punch correctly observed was the case previously. However, I suppose I should go fix up the Deputy Leader of Israel article now. I will probably put in the same footnote as I did in the Peres article. 6SJ7 01:20, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Done. This article, Deputy Leader of Israel, Tzipi Livni and Shimon Peres are all now, I believe, reasonably consistent with each other in terms of who holds which of the "honorary" positions in the Cabinet. If there are any other articles that have the same issue, I don't know about them (nor, given the amount of time I have spent on this today, do I necessarily want to know right now.) 6SJ7 01:38, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Official Prime Minister's office website

I looked at the Hebrew version of the Israeli prime minister's office website. I will give the most literal translation i can and in the order listed on the website

• Ehud Olmert - Prime Minister and Minister of Social Welfare
• Shimon Peres - The second in command to the Prime Minister and the Minister for the development of the Negev and the Galilee who will be in charge of regional economic development
• Tzipi Livni - The one who fills the spot of the Prime Minister and Foreign Minister

The rest of them are as indicated above. For those who want to look at the original it's at http://www.pmo.gov.il/PMO/Government/Panel/. Dah6543 20:55, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

Non-Jewish ministers?

Does anybody know if there are any non-Jewish (e. g. Christian or Muslim) members in the current Israeli cabinet or if there have been ministers in past governments who were not Jewish? Thanks a lot in advance! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.113.40.235 (talk) 12:32, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

Ayoob Kara (Druze) is currently a deputy minister, but there are no non-Jewish ministers at the moment. There have been two (Raleb Majadele and Salah Tarif) in the past though - see this page on the Knesset website. Regards, пﮟოьεԻ 57 12:36, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

The name of the article should be the government of Israel

The cabinet in israel is small furom of few senior ministers wich decides about secret or importment decisions (like nagotiation withe the plisteniens, war and peace). The government of israel is the complete forum of all ministers and vice ministers togather, wich is the subject of this article. sorry for the bad english. Edensmoolandme (talk) 20:06, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Cabinet of Albania which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RM bot 19:46, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

"Massacre Government" Still Appearing For Links

Why does this still appear when linking despite being removed?

E.g. link from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President_of_Israel still shows. Dzprv (talk) 10:49, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

Requested move 25 April 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. – robertsky (talk) 13:36, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

---

Cabinet of Israel → Government of Israel – Government is the official name. See https://main.knesset.gov.il/en/activity/pages/basiclaws.aspx https://www.gov.il/en/pages/pm-netanyahu-s-remarks-at-the-start-of-the-government-meeting-17-apr-2024 For example. Also, "The Cabinet" in Israel is often used to refer to the Security Cabinet of Israel. Any objections to move?

. GeopoliticalSphygmomanometry (talk) 11:47, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose Per article description, "Cabinet" is far more WP:COMMONNAME for this type of executive ministerial component. I actually think "Government of Israel" would be far more confusing. Mistamystery (talk) 16:09, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

Frankly, I don't know. Ironically though, right now there's a clear distinction: there's a "war cabinet" including Yahu, Gantz and Eizenkot, and a gov't with the entire endless number of ministers, ranging from useless to highly toxic or a mix of the two ingredients. The "war cabinet" and the gov't are very far from being the same. So at least for now: cautious, distinction is needed! Other "imaginative" solutions, like rotating PMs, are also exceptional cases, but maybe less relevant for this matter. Arminden (talk) 18:09, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose I think there is a distinction between a government and a cabinet. The government of a country includes ministries, the civil service etc while the cabinet is a group of people that includes the Prime Minister and ministers. For example, there are separate articles on the government and cabinet for the UK. Number 57 23:23, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

  You can't argue like that. Each country is different. In the US they speak of "the X administration", elsewhere of "the Y government", in a third of "the Z cabinet". All that really counts are good, specialised sources. Arminden (talk) 00:13, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

  This argument is flawed. Pls read the leads of the very articles you've indicated: the UK gov't includes the Prime Minister and ALL the ministers, while the cabinet includes the PM and a small select number of ministers. The ministries with the civil servants etc. are the administative system. The confusion stems from the blurred use in English of the term "government". In other European languages one uses "the state/State" (not the "nation", which only refers to the population!) for the overall national institution, and "government" only for a particular set of ministers under a PM or president, thus avoiding the confusion.

  Pls mind that we also have Israeli system of government, dealing with presidency, executive, legislative, judicial branch, separation of powers, etc. That probably covers part of what you mean.

  Again: pls also check the "war cabinet" (5 members) within the 37th government.

  But the problem is there, see the lead at "37th government" and in every page on the 37 different gov'ts: "The thirty-seventh government of Israel is the current cabinet of Israel...", so basically "the government is the cabinet", which sounds silly.

  Only the official use of the terms is a valid argument, then checked by proper English (mind how the ubiquitous Israeli talk about "Gaza manoeuvres" is not a Putinist attempt at masking the truth, but most likely a literal translation from Hebrew, where manoeuvre and the correct term, operation, apparently overlap). Which shows again that opinions by non-native English Wikipedia editors like me don't matter, period. So let's cut the blabber, where are the sources? Arminden (talk) 16:56, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose per Mistamystery and Number 57 above. -- Necrothesp (talk) 15:28, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Closed, but never dealt with

So, what are the RS? Arminden (talk) 17:29, 3 May 2024 (UTC)