Talk:Burchell Whiteman

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Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: rejected by Flibirigit (talk) 23:06, 15 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Article history

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... that former Jamaican education minister Burchell Whiteman was the top student in Clarendon Parish?

Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Wong Keng Liang

5x expanded by Kingoflettuce (talk). Self-nominated at 07:42, 10 May 2020 (UTC).[reply]

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy compliance:

Adequate sourcing:
Neutral:
Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:
Other problems:

Hook eligibility:

Cited: - The cited source implies that he was the top student in Clarendon, but it may not be the case. I suppose the hook can be at least as cautious as the source on this.
Interesting:

QPQ: Done.

Overall: Just the hook being cautious on him being the top student in Clarendon, just as the same way the source is. Howard the Duck (talk) 08:33, 12 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hey Howard the Duck, thanks for the review, but I don't quite agree. The source says "which means he was the top student for Clarendon", so that's unambiguous (as opposed to "which suggests", etc.). I wouldn't second-guess what the source is literally saying (that "it may not be the case") In any case I don't know how cautious the reworded hook can be, never mind that its original wording is verifiable, without sounding awkward. Kingoflettuce (talk) 08:57, 12 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I suppose a short explanation of him attending Munro College on a government scholarship means he was considered the top student of the county. Howard the Duck (talk) 09:58, 12 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

In the hook? I just find it a mouthful and it doesn't change that at the end of the day the source does unambiguously say that he was the top student. Kingoflettuce (talk) 12:13, 12 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry for being unclear. I was referring to explaining this on the article per se. Howard the Duck (talk) 12:23, 12 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It's apparent User:Kingoflettuce won't do the request. I'll let another person chime in. Howard the Duck (talk) 12:27, 12 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

More of a comment than a review, but I'm not so sure about the hook interest. Being a top student in a place is a remarkable achievement, but also fairly common place and doesn't seem to make a good hook if it refers to a fairly obscure location. There's probably still potential for the hook fact, but at the very least it could be reworded to make it more appealing, like perhaps he got a scholarship because of it. Is it also known if the scholarship was the reason he entered politics? If it was, that might work better as a hook. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 08:29, 31 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Being the top student in some obscure place is not interesting. —BarrelProof (talk) 23:55, 2 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Interestingness is subjective, as is obscurity. WP:BIAS? Happy to entertain any ALTs in any case Kingoflettuce (talk) 13:30, 5 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Was he already planning to enter politics from the start, or was the scholarship his inspiration for that career path? Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 14:03, 5 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

There really is little to work with in the article at present, which is little more than a list of his positions and awards. I have dug up some sources on his views, which would help make a good hook. I listed some sources on the article talk page. Yoninah (talk) 17:22, 15 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Yoninah: have you found anything? I think the Clarendon fact is interesting enough to carry a hook, but if you have more options now we can go from there. Kingsif (talk) 11:50, 23 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Kingsif: I provided those sources for the nominator. He needs to come back to this nomination so it won't be closed as stale. Yoninah (talk) 11:54, 23 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I will note that there hasn't actually been a formal re-review, but both the original reviewer and Kingsif seem generally happy with the original hook. Kingoflettuce (talk) 06:03, 24 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Considering there has been disagreement over the hook's suitability, new wordings and hooks may still need to be proposed in any case. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 06:44, 24 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Question: just WHO exactly is doing the review (and is therefore the arbiter of what's interesting or not)? Kingoflettuce (talk) 10:25, 25 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The primary reviewer is Howard the Duck, but any editor can comment on their thoughts on the article and hooks. Nominations still need to follow consensus of editors when applicable. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 14:39, 25 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

We need to get a move on here. Calling for a new reviewer. Yoninah (talk) 19:19, 5 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

In any case, more hook proposals would be a good idea, perhaps based on the sources that Yoninah provided. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 22:35, 8 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I concur with BarrelProof and Narutolovehinata5 that the hook is not appealing to a broad audience. Being the top student in a parish is not interesting. I suggest closing the nomination unless something interesting can be found. Flibirigit (talk) 03:17, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Right now the only angle that seems to be possible is the Order of Jamaica aspect. If additional information could be added to the article, maybe suggestions based on that could work. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 00:34, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Leaving this as a possible option:

ALT1 ... that former Jamaican education minister Burchell Whiteman has been praised for contributing to quality and affordable education in the country?

I'm not a big fan of ALT1 given that it sounds vague a bit promotional, but its fact is the only other part of the article that seems suitable right now. Upon further research, it turns out that the Order of Jamaica is actually only the fourth most-prestigious title in the country, so it probably wouldn't work as a hook anymore given its relatively lower status. If no other appropriate proposals can be written, this may need to be marked for closure. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 12:45, 15 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I'm sorry that the nominator hasn't come back to improve the article. Whiteman was a significant figure but this page reads like a dry resume. I would mark for closure right now. Yoninah (talk) 13:29, 15 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I concur with the statement above. The "Career" section is too short to cover the subject and the nomination has been abandoned. If the article becomes GA it could be nominated again. Flibirigit (talk) 23:06, 15 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]