Talk:Bumblebee (film)/Archive 1

Archive 1

Era setting

The entire story takes place in the mid-80s apparently, with several visual cues and plot devices based on this. (And maybe some slight anachronisms.) I don't see any reference to the era of the story in the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.124.116.101 (talk) 20:21, 14 February 2019 (UTC)

Bumblebee will cost $70M+ to make

Bumblebee will cost $70M-plus to make, following the critical and financial reception to Transformers 5: http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/lists/hollywood-rethinks-key-movie-franchises-a-mixed-summer-at-box-office-1022322/item/transformers-studios-rethink-franchise-films-1022310 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.242.120.51 (talk) 19:44, 31 July 2017 (UTC)

Currently the article puts the budget at $102 million but I think we should wait and see what reputable sources like Variety have to say, it is quite possible that they spent more than that. It's a low figure compared to any other film in the series (but The-Numbers.com are listing it already as the budget figure).

If you look at the report provided as a source it uses the phrase "Qualified Expenditures" and lists Bumblebee as having spent $102,458,000 in California and that it has "Reserved credits" of $22,394,000 (a simple deduction gives us $80,064,000 so maybe the $70 plus claim wasn't too far off, if you think it is fair to claim that the cost after tax rebates is the actual budget). However they only declared money spent in California that was eligible for tax breaks, if any work (such as special effects) was outsourced the spend could have been higher (and there's always reshoots).

IMDB is not a reliable source but they are listing the budget as $128 million, as another comment mentions below. More than Meets the Eye indeed. -- 109.76.149.62 (talk) 02:19, 16 December 2018 (UTC)

Box Office Mojo currently claims the budget was $135 million and deadline describes it as "this $137M production (before P&A)". -- 109.79.73.193 (talk) 14:02, 21 December 2018 (UTC)

Variety said the budget was $100 so to avoid cherry picking as the Template:Infobox film says we should do both figures were included until recently. However Variety also later said the budget was $135 million and an editor took this as an indication that the figures were not conflicting and editor removed the alternative lower figure. Arguably the article not following the guidelines and is still cherry picking figures because the Film LA report and The-numbers still lists the budget as $102 million and deadline lists it as $137 million.

I'm going to leave it alone for now because $135 millions does seems to be the more credible pre tax figure, but ideally the article body should make some effort to explain the discrepancies and at least mention that the film got tax write offs. -- 109.77.244.106 (talk) 13:10, 19 January 2019 (UTC)

I really object to edits that cherry pick the budget figures in the Infobox and I will revert them. The discrepancies and any tax breaks really should be explained in the article text but editors are too lazy to bother explaining in proper prose which is why it is so important not to cherry pick in the Infobox. If these details were actually explained in the article text I'd be less concerned about listing only one figure in the Infobox. -- 109.76.211.117 (talk) 00:06, 28 March 2019 (UTC)

"Transformers: Bumblebee" title

Merchandise for a movie is not a sufficient source for its title. Besides, in the provided source it doesn't say specifically that the title is "Transformers: Bumblebee" anywhere. It's possible that the logo is simply stylized as such, specifically for the merchandise and not the actual film. If this was actually the title, why are the Hasbro toys the only place on the internet where the film is referred to as such? The film studio (Paramount), the posters, trailers, and social media pages all simply show the title as "Bumblebee". Sandrobost (talk) 18:59, 3 November 2018 (UTC)

I'm saying we revert until a definitive source is provided? The line of toys isn't a good enough source imo, especially when, as you've pointed out, the marketing is saying differently. QueerFilmNerd^talk 21:38, 3 November 2018 (UTC)

Does anyone have access to IMDbPro?

https://pro.imdb.com/title/tt4701182?rf=cons_tt_bo_tt&ref_=cons_tt_bo_tt

this place supposedly has the "source" for the $128 million budget for this film. It would be good if someone can access it. Hayholt (talk) 13:51, 26 November 2018 (UTC)

Box Office Collection & Budget reliable source.

A famous website that publish Box Office and Budget information that website is "Box Office Mojo". And this website is always provide to all Hollywood films that make their release. And this only followed by Wikipedia all Hollywood films pages. And production of films is always provide in this website only. So I kindly request all of you to please don't remove the reliable source that is provided for gross & budget. Sapian sam (talk) 17:52, 22 December 2018 (UTC)

Unfortunately Box Office Mojo makes a lot of mistakes. They are no more reliable than any other Hollywood source. If they have made mistakes or if the numbers they have published need a closer looker then so be it but they must be challenged, same as any other source. --- 109.79.165.193 (talk) 00:21, 23 December 2018 (UTC)

Box Office Mojo is not a good source. They publish figures and then change those figures later without saying that they have changed those figures. They are barely a reliable source. -- 109.79.165.193 (talk) 00:27, 23 December 2018 (UTC)

The page Template:Infobox_film says "If there are conflicting estimates, do not cherry-pick". See also Hollywood accounting. -- 109.79.165.193 (talk) 00:54, 23 December 2018 (UTC)

In fact right now we can see Box Office Mojo doing a bad job. On the Box Office Mojo page for Bumblebee they list a domestic total of $8,460,000 domestic and no other figures, they have ignored the rest of the world. The-Numbers.com does list $8,460,000 and also International Box Office of $2,913,629 and a Worldwide Box Office total $11,373,629. -- 109.76.131.195 (talk) 10:48, 23 December 2018 (UTC)

Please don't add other reliable source to Box office and Budget section. Sapian sam (talk) 09:45, 19 February 2019 (UTC)

Horror movie ?

Bumblebee like all transformers have horror elements, so sci-fi action horror film. I noticed that in the wikipedia pages of Jurassic park, horror is not mentioned in the genre of the film! Jurassic Park, Transformers are as much horror movies as the Exorcist, Alien, Frankenstein and The Shining --77.207.75.83 (talk) 15:01, 27 December 2018 (UTC)

Bumblebee is not a horror film in any sense. This is not verifiable at all. Furthermore, the opening sentence should have the most common genre or sub-genre as determined by reliable sources. Erik (talk | contrib) ^{(ping me)} 15:21, 27 December 2018 (UTC)

if Alien is a horror film, then Transformers too --77.207.75.83 (talk) 16:48, 27 December 2018 (UTC)

Wikipedia follows a policy of verifiability. Alien has been called horror by reliable sources, and the Transformers movies have not. We follow what sources say; our own opinions are not (and should not be) part of writing encyclopedic content. Erik (talk | contrib) ^{(ping me)} 16:56, 27 December 2018 (UTC)

ip77 you're going to need to show reliable sources that call this film horror and even if you can find a source that does there will be far too many other sources that call this an action movie or similar that it would be WP:UNDUE to emphasize a source that calls this horror or alien or whatever. -- 89.100.226.165 (talk) 20:50, 27 December 2018 (UTC)

Transformers is a pure horror movie:

Giant robots, extraterrestrial invasion, all these are elements of horror fim.--77.207.75.83 (talk) 08:47, 28 December 2018 (UTC)

You are welcome to have your own opinion and interpretation but Wikipedia does still try to be an encyclopedia and uses reliable sources, most of which call Bumblebee an action movie. -- 109.79.176.189 (talk) 16:32, 28 December 2018 (UTC)

an action movie ? you really think this so-called "action movie" look like Rambo, Fast and Furious ? science-fiction, yes ! action ? NO ! and if Star wars is a sci-fi horror, then why Transformers is not ?!--77.207.75.83 (talk) 17:08, 28 December 2018 (UTC)

Transformers is a true horror film like Jaws, The Shining, The Exorcist, The Omen, Alien, Halloween ! Transformers are giants robots, giants robots from the sky (aliens then), so GIANT ROBOTS + ALIENS + ELEMENTS OF SCARY MOVIE = HORROR MOVIE ! i do not understant what you say !--77.207.75.83 (talk) 17:11, 28 December 2018 (UTC)

do you know sub-genres ? they are many ! transformers is considered as a true horror movie fro many, many sites ! --77.207.75.83 (talk) 17:12, 28 December 2018 (UTC)

Please show reliable sources that call this film horror. (What reliable source ever claimed Star Wars was sci-fi horror?). Just as a horror movie can contain funny elements and not be a comedy, a film can contain things that might be horrific in a different context without being a horror movie.

Why do I think this is an action movie? Reviewers call it an action movie [1] "action movie". [2] Rotten Tomatoes lists it as Genre: Action & Adventure, Science Fiction & Fantasy. [3] Metacritic lists it is Genre(s): Action, Adventure, Sci-Fi

Again please show reliable sources, otherwise editors will revert your changes. -- 109.79.176.189 (talk) 19:25, 28 December 2018 (UTC)

For the record there are others who have considered the same ideas you have considered and one such person tried to make trailer for the first Transformers film as if it was a horror. I don't think it was good but maybe sometime in the future a company that isn't trying to sell toys will make a horror film about alien robots and I'd probably pay to see that movie. -- 109.79.176.189 (talk) 03:17, 29 December 2018 (UTC)

Merger proposal

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

The result of this discussion is Closed as Moot. The soundtrack article was speedy deleted because it was created by a blocked user. (non-admin closure) ---DOOMSDAYER520 (Talk|Contribs) 18:48, 28 December 2018 (UTC)

---

I propose to merge Bumblebee (film soundtrack) into Bumblebee (film). The soundtrack album has only received basic listings of its existence at retail/streaming sites, and existence does not prove notability. There is no sign that it will receive independent coverage in its own right. Since the track list is useful information, that can be added to the film's article as is common for soundtrack albums that are not independently notable. ---DOOMSDAYER520 (Talk|Contribs) 20:51, 27 December 2018 (UTC)

I support this. A quick search engine test shows no reason to split it off. Erik (talk | contrib) ^{(ping me)} 21:16, 27 December 2018 (UTC)

I do not support this. As a mobile user short articles are better and lists or tables like Soundtrack or Accolades are better on subpages. The main article should be WP:PROSE. -- 109.79.68.130 (talk) 00:58, 28 December 2018 (UTC)

Visibility for a device has never been a criterion for merging articles or similar requests. (Wikipedia:Merging, WP:GOODARG.) To qualify for a dedicated Wikipedia article, the item in question must satisfy Wikipedia's notability requirements, and this discussion should be about whether the soundtrack album qualifies. ---DOOMSDAYER520 (Talk|Contribs) 15:51, 28 December 2018 (UTC)

If it isn't notable then it isn't notable. Delete the page it if you must. But if it isn't notable then there isn't a good reason to bloat this page with it either.

WP:LENGTH specifically WP:SPLITLIST go against bloating this article with Soundtracks and Awards lists. -- 109.79.176.189 (talk) 16:32, 28 December 2018 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

3D and IMAX

Where are the sources saying that it was released in 3D and IMAX (2D)? --Ans (talk) 07:06, 28 December 2018 (UTC)

Do you think sources need to be added to confirm that information. I didn't think it was in any doubt but if you want to be bold and add sources then go for it. IMAX Bumblebee -- 109.79.176.189 (talk) 16:32, 28 December 2018 (UTC)

That source does not clearly state that it is 2D or 3D. --Ans (talk) 07:46, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

This was a completely unnecessary citation request. Did you even try to to look for sources. The very first reference in the article has the details http://www.bbfc.co.uk/releases/bumblebee-2018 "Some versions of this film are displayed in the 3D or IMAX format and some younger children may find them a more intense experience". -- 109.76.138.251 (talk) 12:50, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

Thank you. But I've just discovered that bbfc may not be reliable source for 2D/3D/IMAX information, for example, X-Men: Apocalypse is available in 3D and IMAX 3D, but bbfc only state that it is 2D. --Ans (talk) 07:48, 10 January 2019 (UTC)

Dead link or is it?

Steve Blum as Wheeljack currently has a reference that points to the web archive. It comes up okay briefly but then redirects to a 404 page. I don't think the cast list even needs that reference anymore (the article was an analysis of the trailer which is well out of date now that the film has been released), it was only needed before the movie was released, but I want to check no one objects before I delete it. -- 109.79.68.146 (talk) 04:43, 29 December 2018 (UTC)

The archived version of page loads but whatever way the page was archived it included some other content that the page then tries to fetch, which causes the whole page to 404. Anyhow it's outdated, unnecessary, and unhelpful, so I've deleted it. -- 109.79.172.66 (talk) 01:06, 6 January 2019 (UTC)

Cast list

The poster includes a billing block with cast list. It is difficult to read even with a larger resolution copy of the poster.

It lists only six cast members:

• Hailee Steinfeld
• John Cena
• Jorge Lendeborg Jr.
• John Ortiz
• Jason Drucker
• Pamela Adlon

The infobox listed only these top six. It was recently changed to include more names. Asking for clarification on the basis of this new list please. -- 109.76.143.176 (talk) 20:28, 31 December 2018 (UTC)

That's my bad; I didn't realize there were even cast members listed on the poster. I'll cut the voice roles. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.4.172.142 (talk) 20:32, 31 December 2018 (UTC)

Bumblebee is an Horror movie (again)

Bumblebee is an Horror movie

Bumblebee is a pure horror movie, the atmosphere, the terror, the fear and the beasts that are elements of horror cinema are present in the horror film Bumblebee, whose main robot is a monstrous creature, in which way would not it be a horror movie? I do not understand, I've always seen Transformers movies as horror movies, as well as the Exorcist, The Shining, Dracula, Frankenstein, Carrie, Night of the Living Dead or It's Alive. Thank you for your future response, hoping you understand that this is a real horror movie. Thank you. --77.207.75.83 (talk) 11:47, 3 January 2019 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.207.75.83 (talk)

As I said above you need to show reliable sources. This is still not a horror film. See above. (User 77.207.75.83 has been banned at least temporarily.) -- 109.77.206.4 (talk) 16:28, 4 January 2019 (UTC)

Non-speaking roles

This is 50% about this article and 50% just asking for clarification about Cast sections in general. I thought the Cast section in film articles listed the actors in the film and the characters they portray, not the other way around. Should fully-CGI characters with no actors who portray them be mentioned in the Cast section? Sandrobost (talk) 16:04, 3 January 2019 (UTC)

I try to think about what best serves readers of the article, and there are some articles that put more emphasis on the Character list than the Cast list, which the guidelines do allow for. If you look at the articles for Jurassic Park films they include lists about which types of dinosaurs were included in the film. The other Transformers film articles also try to mention which characters were included. If you can think of a different, better way to present the same information that would great but I would discourage anyone from deleting it (various well intentioned editors will keep adding it back, so best to take it in good faith and go along with it). Ready Player One included a long list of characters that appear in the film, but that eventually became a cultural references section, which gives an overview and references lists published by other sources, so these things can be done in various different ways. -- 109.77.206.4 (talk) 16:40, 4 January 2019 (UTC)