Talk:Bull-Leaping Fresco

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Unreferenced material

"It was found on a wall on the east side of the palace of Knossos, in the courtyard of the stone mouth. Its main subject is a scene of bull-leaping, surrounded by images of stone and abstract linear motifs. The ensemble as a whole is two-dimensional, except for the strong lines in the woman's chests, legs and thighs, which reflect the artist's attempt to deliver volume and depth, a rare attempt for this period. It is on display at the Heraklion Archaeological Museum.

On an Egyptian blue background, in the centre of the scene, is a bull, painted in pink-red ochre, lime and brown, or yellow ochre with coal - these colors may have been chosen for their effect, though it is also possible that the use of red ochre and other Neolithic colours is linked to contemporary ideas of death. The bull is suspended in the air, as a result of the artist's wish to capture its brash aggressive movement - bulls often continued to be represented that way right up to the creation of photography. Either side of the bull is a woman, one of whom holds the bull's horns and the other holds out her arms, while a man is on the bull's back. Both sexes are in the same costume (probably since a more complex garment could get entangled in the bull's horns) and they are differentiated by differences in the anatomy and colour used for their skin (the man is in red ochre, the women white, as in Cycladic and Mycenaean frescoes). The man's movement is dynamic, the figures' ears are fully formed and (as in most Bronze Age art) the bull's and humans' eyes are bird-like in appearance."

I do apologize but these interesting if sophomoric unreferenced speculations have to go. They represent an editor's unsophisticated first impressions. Since I am rewritng the entire section I forego my usual check for plagiarism. I don't know who else would write this. For the color - well, you don't need to speculate; Evans has already done a chemical analysis of the colors. See the "Fresco" section of Knossos. The artist's wishes - my goodness, just how did you discern those? If your power of reading minds retroactively were true, you ought to make a fortune guiding police detectives in solving crimes. Is the bull suspended in the air? Maybe that is the stock Mycenaean "flying leap" given to horses, lions, deer and such. On the other hands, is this a real bull? If so, how do we leap over bulls even as they are off the ground? A bull is a pretty heavy animal, you know. How did they get off the ground? That is a pretty good trick, considering its horns are being held by a lady. Maybe you think, then, that this giant aurochs-like creature was being wrestled to the ground by petite Minoan lady. Is it a lady? Where are the breasts? Why dos she wear a male codpiece? Well, so they were afraid the clothing would get entangled? I would think they would be afraid of being tossed many feet in the air, gored, run through, crushed, have their necks broken like rag dolls. Make up your mind, is this a real or imaginary event? I got to go now, but just because it is art does not mean it is fair game for purely imaginative interpretation. Do you think you may have been reading the local art critics too much?Dave (talk) 10:53, 9 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Well, just a few words about bull fighting. In Spain some people are known as 'recortadores'(dodgers), it's curious because they do things like that jump in the painting. For instance: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWYLFzHzCJE http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uLbMfThKBA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHU_0b58VE4

In Portugal, the 'Forcados' do things like that: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLWvKpQdjSo

So, perhaps those pintings in Creta could be real. Alvarfanyez (talk) 12:28, 5 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Entirely symbolic representation. The two females are goddesses aiding the daring male. Pretty common motif in the ancient world. What exactly the male is doing in unclear. Does it matter? He just has to do something courageous. It's assumed the goddesses will appreciate that and look out for him. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.78.244.33 (talk) 02:23, 12 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Size of ancient Minoan bull leaping bulls

Baloney. The last aurochs (Bos primigenius) died in Poland in 1627. Since the aurochs was about a third larger than domestic cattle, it's hoof size would also be proportionally larger, but not "the size of a human head" as uncritically claimed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.36.159.253 (talk) 04:20, 7 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]