Talk:Buffalo jump

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Clarifications needed

I'm no expert on the topic and have no business editing this page, but I can certainly point out a route to improvement or two...

The following two quotes seem to contradict eachother:

"Every part of the bison was used by the tribes who hunted them" ; "the site below has compacted bison bones nearly 13 feet deep."

Also there is a list of notable buffalo jumps, many of which have their own articles, but there is also a subheading for "Ulm Pishkun Buffalo Jump" (which does not have its own article and could probably be expanded on either way).

If I find some good sources maybe I'll add some information on Ulm Pishkun and move it to its own article (with a link from here, of course), but currently I can only point out where improvement seems necessary, not sure the best way to do it - that is, I don't know enough of the facts to sort out the seeming contradiction between the above quotes and I can't exactly add any reliable facts to Ulm Pishkun, but someone probably should... --Curien1000 (talk) 07:03, 13 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I'd like to reply to your point (well taken) about "Every part of the bison was used by the tribes who hunted them" ; "the site below has compacted bison bones nearly 13 feet deep." This does indeed seem like a contradiction, but I may have an explanation: 'every part of the bison was used' probably means 'every part could be used' - not that it always was. For example, the hide was obviously used for teepees and clothes; the horns for gourds/spoons; the hooves ground for glue, the sinews used for bowstrings, the bones for needles and tools; the gut for water vessels (similar to nomads in the Sahara)...even the brains were used, for tanning the hides I think... The point was not that every part got used all the time, but rather that the Bison could provide for almost any need the people had. With a herd of bison driven over a cliff, I'd bet quite a lot was indeed discarded. The meat and hide was probably the main thing they were after.
That part of the narrative may need to be rewritten/clarified...Engr105th (talk) 00:05, 25 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Made an effort at clarifying this on the main page. I think this info is widely known but I don't have any direct references. Engr105th (talk) 08:14, 6 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

- Hooves ground for glue? I call BS, Why would you grind up hooves when you can make hide-glue as a byproduct of the hides you were tanning anyway? and what were they gluing? This is Wikipedia... it seems sourced but I bet that somebody just made that up. Its true I guess, hooves could be ground up for glue, that doesn't mean anyone actually did that. Puddytang (talk) 22:38, 29 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

@Puddytang: I see your point. But under the Wiki article "Animal Glue" (History section; Reemergence para) it says "Native Americans would use hoof glue primarily as a binder and as a water resistant coating by boiling it down from leftover animal parts and applying it to exposed surfaces..." etc etc... The info cites sources (though I haven't looked into them)...It suggests that at least one Plains tribe (Assiniboine) used it. Guess we need to look at some Native American references to get further info. But the point remains that hooves could be used as an ingredient for glue, which is all the buffalo jump article implies. You are correct - Wikipedia needs to be kept encyclopdic. But to do that, articles with similar info (in this case, 'history of glue' and 'uses of animal products by Native Americans') need to be in general agreement...Engr105th (talk) 12:50, 24 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The information on the Blackfoot word for "buffalo jump" is of dubious origin. The word "pishkun" is indeed found in the link cited, but this is not standard Blackfoot spelling, which would be "pisskan". Additionally, the information about what this word "means" (other than buffalo jump) is not found in the link cited, and "pisskan" bears little or no similarity to the Blackfoot words for "deep", "blood", or "kettle". This information should be properly cited or removed. JohnDillinger43 —Preceding undated comment added 16:41, 21 May 2012 (UTC).[reply]

Poor references

This article references websites that themselves have no references and do not appear to be authoritative. The subject seems like one that is subject to a lot of folklore. It needs some more authoritative references, if there are any.Jarhed (talk) 20:38, 16 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

There are plenty, in archaeological and anthropological journals. — SMcCandlish Talk⇒ ʕ(^Õل^ō)ˀ Contribs. 22:28, 29 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Too narrow

This really needs to be broadened into a more general article on game jumps. "Buffalo" (bison) are only one animal hunted this way, and the technique is known in Eurasia well into the Paleolithic. — SMcCandlish Talk⇒ ʕ(^Õل^ō)ˀ Contribs. 22:28, 29 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I can see your point, but in thinking about it I disagree. Although Indians also occasionally killed other animals this way (antelope, perhaps?), "buffalo jumps" were specific to N.America and specific to Native Americans. The buffalo (properly the American Bison) was the principal life-support resource for the people using buffalo jumps. It deserves it's own article... Game Jump could have it's own article too however. Someone just needs to find sources/examples. Engr105th (talk) 17:34, 18 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

(1) "On foot" is missing (2) An image is deceptive

(1)

Buffalo Jump Within Wind Cave National Park: Long before the arrival of horses to North America, native people hunted bison on foot...

(2) The image shows horses:

AllThatJazz2012 (talk) 10:00, 5 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Use of the word Indians

Should instances of the word Indian be changed to something more accurate like Native Americans? Outside of quotes of course

--Seanprokop (talk) 16:13, 12 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

"Native American" is no more accurate than "Indian".

Of the many Native people I have known, maybe two-thirds use the term "Indian", unless they are giving a specific tribal affiliation. The other third appears about evenly split between "Indigenous", "Native American", and "First Nations".

The US government department responsible for relations with Native tribes is called the Bureau of Indian Affairs

74.95.43.253 (talk) 22:17, 28 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The US Government...that's your moral compass? FOH, clown.216.208.210.178 (talk) 13:31, 18 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Potential cultural reference?

I've always wondered if the cover to U2's One single is a reference to this. I'm not confident enough to add it myself. Fpsulli3 (talk) 18:03, 7 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Edit: Oh I guess it's a famous photograph by David Wojnarowicz — Preceding unsigned comment added by Fpsulli3 (talk • contribs) 18:05, 7 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

“Incredibly wasteful”

Took out some stuff in this article calling these practices “incredibly wasteful” and “archaeologists criticize” very POV language that feels like blaming indigenous people for the demise of the buffalo. Also stuff that was very much not said in the source. Alwaysbelieveinhope (talk) 19:38, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Did you read the LeBlanc source? It very much criticizes the practice (and by a Harvard archaeologist no less, as incredibly wasteful), though I agree we can remove "incredibly" to make the language most neutral. Iljhgtn (talk) 11:53, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]