Talk:Buenos Aires Underground

Requested move

Buenos Aires Metro → Buenos Aires Subway

I think that this name is more correct, because the Buenos Aires's underground rapid transit system is called as "subte" (literal translation, subway), and not as "metro", unlike other Spanish-speaking cities. --Daniel dj87 (talk) 05:18, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Daniel, the term subte in argentina, wouldn't mean subway (It is an american way to say metro) if not underground (subte-rraneo) just as the same case in england were the metro system is called London underground. Nevertheless in english we refer to Buenos Aires subte as metro because the term is used all over the world.

Regards,--Fercho85 (talk) 06:51, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Mmm, well, firstly, I don´t know how what is the most popular way to call the rapid transit of Buenos Aires in English, but I don't think correct to call it as Metro. Why? Because metro is the literal translate of the same Spanish term, and -in Spanish- nobody calls as metro the Buenos Aires Subte.

You say that subway is an Americanism, that's true, but if we translate literally the term, we will be saying "camino/vía subte(rráneo)". That's the reason why I thought it as the most appropriate term.

Nevertheless, I agree with you about the term "subte" was born of the English (from England) Underground. In fact, the British built the first lines, and its has been appointed with the term used by them. The most common term in Spanish, "metro", arose so much later in Spain, but Argentines still calling it as we did for the first time.

So, considering the historical characteristics of the term, I reformulate the requested move to

Buenos Aires Metro → Buenos Aires Underground

I am really convinced that this is the correct way to call subte in English. As a simple example, the state enterprise owner of the network is called Subterráneos de Buenos Aires or Buenos Aires Undergrounds, not "Buenos Aires Metros" or something similar.

Regards, Daniel dj87 (talk) 04:26, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Daniel dj87 may have a point worth considering since the British had a big influence in Argentines rail network, and even culturaly afterall, and in the case of the Spanish version of this article we also have a problem in wich should be addressed, I believe "Subte de Buenos Aires" is used incorrectly, in Buenos Aires the term ‘subte’ is used colloquialy and it refers to the official "Subterraneo de Buenos Aires", just as in London the colloquial term ‘tube’ refers to the "London Underground", you wouldn't call it "London Tube", or would you?, unofficially maybe! Lol Moebiusuibeom-en (talk) 19:47, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Indeed Moebiusuibeom, I think we should consider seriously Daniel dj87 propose, if you take a look at argentine infrastructure you would realize that it was heavily influenced by the british people. --Fercho85 (talk) 20:43, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Buenos Aires Metro → Buenos Aires Underground

and in the Spanish speaking Wikipedia

Subte de Buenos Aires → Subterráneo de Buenos Aires

you may discus @: Discusión:Subte de Buenos Aires#¿Subte o Subterráneo?

Moebiusuibeom-en (talk) 00:56, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

If it were up to me, and it is not, I would call the article "Subterráneos de Buenos Aires" (with the "s" because that's the usage at www.sbase.com.ar), and would refer in Buenos Aires Metro, Buenos Aires Underground, etc. But that's because I would generally call things what they are named, and refer in nicknames and translations. Jim (talk) 05:59, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

Hey, got news, the British and American expats living in Buenos Aires are calling it the BA Underground, maybe in reference to the whole "underground" nightlife scene going on, ja, and after all, when it was built almost 100 years ago by the Britons the word Metro was nonexistent, they where called Underground, aka, Subterráneo in Spanish, and furthermore, in very British fashion trains run on the left, full-stop – Moebiusuibeom-en (talk) 00:34, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

I totally agree with Jim also – Moebiusuibeom-en (talk) 00:34, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

The present name is really less desirable than any of the suggestions here. My suggestion would be merely Subte. It redirects here. It's the most common name in Spanish. It's semi-official, at least enough so to be written on the trains. Subterráneos de Buenos Aires is a fine second choice. If Buenos Aires Underground actually has currency among English speakers, that would be OK, although I'd like to see it in print. Since consensus exists to change it from the status quo, but not on a destination name, anyone with privileges to do so would be justified in moving it to something we kind of agree on, IMO. Regards, PhilipR 99.97.6.29 (talk) 04:49, 30 September 2011 (UTC)

To whom it may concern...

... and in regards to the Buenos Aires Metro!

The owner of the Buenos Aires underground railroad, Subterráneos de Buenos Aires is a company of the Buenos Aires City Government, that studies, designs and plans expansions and renovations of the subway network in Buenos Aires. Its origin dates back to 1909 and is a pioneer in the construction and operation of this type of transport.

Subterráneos de Buenos Aires, has privatized and given concession on, 1 January 1994, to Metrovías S.A., a privately-owned company, for the operation and management of the system, whom in their «Continental» English speaking online portal, they unofficialy describe it as the «Buenos Aires City Subway», the truth to the matter is, that the Buenos Aires underground railways system, initially built by the Anglo-Argentine Tramway Company, and that for almost a century has been known as the Subterráneos de Buenos Aires, should be named, to the same degree as in the language of William Shakespeare, as the Buenos Aires Underground — Moebiusuibeom-en (talk) 01:10, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

OK , the Buenos Aires Metro is much more appropriate on the international level!

Bad English

This article is full of bad English, presumably because of over-literal translations from Spanish. ("Primeval" is the funniest one. Makes me wonder if there are dinosaurs in the underground?) I will try to correct some of these. APW (talk) 08:33, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

Out of curiosity, how did you get from "obsolete" to "overcrowded" in this edit? There several reasons why a metro system could be considered obsolete, and the original text didn't specify the reason (although, of course, it should have). Orange Suede Sofa (talk) 08:54, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

The first station of this network opened

I'm sure more than one station opened otherwise there would be little point, but how many opened on the first day?--Kitchen Knife (talk) 23:34, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

Requested move 21 December 2013

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was not moved. No prejudice against a "Subte" proposal. --BDD (talk) 00:35, 7 January 2014 (UTC)

Buenos Aires Underground → Buenos Aires Metro – The most commonly used word for underground rapid transit systems is "metro." Look at the category for underground rapid transit by country, and the vast majority use the word "metro" in the title on every continent. This word is practically universally understood by English speakers traveling internationally, and is the most likely word to be used when inquiring about availability of such systems. Also, within the text of the article, the word "metro" is used extensively, as well as the category name, all the station names and their articles, the line names and their articles, and all the templates used in navigation and design for the articles about the lines and stations. jsfouche ☽☾Talk 12:54, 21 December 2013 (UTC)

Survey

Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *'''Support''' or *'''Oppose''', then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's policy on article titles.

• Oppose - Based on the name Subte it could be called "Subway" but never "Metro". There are lots of undergrounds/subways in the world, not just metros. Secondarywaltz (talk) 20:43, 21 December 2013 (UTC)
• Support as common Spanish for an underground rail system is "metro", as far as I know, as well as being the word Spanish speakers use in English to describe metros (from my limited knowledge). But also, I wouldn't be opposed to Subte. Red Slash 00:01, 26 December 2013 (UTC)
• Oppose. The proposal would mis-translate a proper name. Support Buenos Aires Subte as better recognizable to the local readership, and better matching es:Subte de Buenos Aires. --SmokeyJoe (talk) 05:02, 30 December 2013 (UTC)
• Oppose. Per SmokeyJoe plus it is the name it has been known for 100 years or so (Subte, short for Subterraneo - trans=Underground). -- Alexf^(talk) 13:39, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

• Oppose, mildly. The article should be at the proper noun name of the organization. It would seem to me that Underground is a more literal translation of Subterraneo, which is apparently in the Spanish language proper noun name. Per some of the discussion below, and comments above, what is relevant is how this system is referred to in English, not how others are. --doncram 23:09, 30 December 2013 (UTC)
• Oppose. The article should probably be at Subte, as that's the proper name and seems to be often treated as a common noun as well in English language sources. If it isn't though, "Underground" is the correct translation. Whatever happens, sub-articles like Line B (Buenos Aires Metro) need standardising. Thryduulf (talk) 16:39, 1 January 2014 (UTC)

Discussion

Any additional comments:

• Question: We should try to identify what term is most commonly used to refer to this topic in English, not what term is used in most other places to refer to similar systems. Otherwise, London Underground would be at London Metro. —BarrelProof (talk) 21:17, 21 December 2013 (UTC)

Similarly the New York City Subway! Secondarywaltz (talk) 21:21, 21 December 2013 (UTC)

The name of the system in London is Underground. If you go to BA and ask for the "underground" in English, they will not get the meaning immediately, but if you ask where is the "metro" they will know what you mean even if it is not called that because the most common word for such systems in English and Spanish is "metro" as evidenced by the vast majority of such systems titled "XX Metro" on the English and Spanish Wikipedias.jsfouche ☽☾Talk 04:21, 26 December 2013 (UTC)

• Category rename needed too? There is a big category Category:Buenos Aires Metro stations which should be renamed consistently with the name of this article, probably by a CFD after this RM is closed. To me it seems that "Buenos Aires Metro stations" is not the correct category name and that it should be Category:Buenos Aires Underground stations instead. Let the RM conclude first tho. --doncram 23:09, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Blacklisted Links Found on the Main Page

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Map Update

The stations under comstruction from lines A, B and H were opened in 2013 and there are current extensions of line H and also line F underway. The map should be updated accordingly because currently it's at least 2 years out of date. 181.169.10.217 (talk) 21:10, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

Update

the line B no longer use third rail, it change to rigid catenary(?) (catenaria rigida in spanish) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 186.18.48.15 (talk) 20:01, 17 December 2015 (UTC)

It still uses both. The CAF 5000 and Eidan trains use third rail, only the CAF 6000 cars use catenaria rigida (overhead lines). Until the majority of trains use overhead lines, it doesn't make much sense to change it. I've clarified this in Line B (Buenos Aires Underground) and Buenos Aires Underground rolling stock, so the information isn't being omitted. When more CAF 6000 cars are finally put into service, I'll make the change. SegataSanshiro1 (talk) 04:45, 18 December 2015 (UTC)

External links modified

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GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Buenos Aires Underground/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: MPJ-DK (talk · contribs) 07:07, 2 June 2016 (UTC)

I will be starting the GA review of this article in the next day or so. I usually provide my feedback in sections over a day or two instead of everything at once, but feel free to respond/address any comments even before the review is complete if you want to. Let me know if you have any questions along the way. The GA review page is on my watch list so just post here to keep all conversations in one place.  MPJ-US  07:07, 2 June 2016 (UTC)

Great! Thanks. SegataSanshiro1 (talk) 17:05, 4 June 2016 (UTC)

GA Toolbox

I like to get this checked out first, I have found issues using this that has led to quick fails so it's important this passes muster.

Peer review tool

• WP:LEAD has too many paragraphs, guideline caps the leads to four paragraphs ideally and this goes beyond that.
• The lead has several sources in it, there really should not be any sources in the lead, they should be placed in the main body of the text where the fact is first mentioned. Sources in the lead always makes me suspect that the facts mentioned in the lead are not in actual body of the article and they need to be. Nothing should only be in the lead if at all possible. 
• Please decide on either British or American English

• Examples include: neighbour (B) (American: neighbor), meter (A) (British: metre), metre (B) (American: meter), organise (B) (American: organize), ization (A) (British: isation), isation (B) (American: ization), signalling (B) (American: signaling), travelled (B) (American: traveled), any more (B) (American: anymore), gray (A) (British: grey), grey (B) (American: gray), programme (B) (American: program ).

• It would be good to avoid galleries in the article, instead try to spread them out through out the article instead.
• The tool hits on the fact that some of the leads have images in them, I have not seen that in other articles and I am not sure that's appropriate - I have never seen that in any article I have reviewed for GA. Is that a standard for train articles?

 Done US/UK English and gallery. I tried sticking with UK English, but it seems a few things slipped through. Doing a ctrl+f, there are still some US english terms used in references (titles) - could this give you a false-positive? Also removed the gallery. The main lede I'll move on to next, however the images in the other ledes isn't so much that there are images in ledes, but rather that those sections don't contain ledes. Would you advise writing short summaries for those sections or can they be left as they are? SegataSanshiro1 (talk) 03:22, 5 June 2016 (UTC)

Fixed the images in ledes (and lack thereof) issue. Just need to sort out one last bit of the main lede now and that should be it for this part. SegataSanshiro1 (talk) 21:39, 6 June 2016 (UTC)

Copyright violationsTool

• Tool is gone, I have tried to google some of the sentences to see if anything comes up and nothing came up that I can see.
• The tool is actually there, I checked and nothing came up worth addressing

Disambiguation links

• No issues Y

External links

• A few issues found when using that tool

• Two links comes up as dead (listed as red in the tool)
• One link comes up as probably dead (in blue)

Any way I can see which links these are so I can use an archive? I'm not too familiar with these tools. SegataSanshiro1 (talk) 03:26, 5 June 2016 (UTC)

 Done - SegataSanshiro1 (talk) 16:08, 15 June 2016 (UTC)

Neutral

• It appears to be on first read through Y

Stable

• Not seeing any content disputes etc. Y

Illustrated / Images

• File:Le Tellier 1.jpg - Has a tag that's for photos, explicitly stated it's not for drawings, but it's a drawing?
• Not sure how the metro line drawings constitute "own work"?
• The rest is looking okay to me.

 Done SegataSanshiro1 (talk) 03:40, 5 June 2016 (UTC)

Well Written

• "Spanish speaking" should be "Spanish-speaking"
• "mid 1990s" should be "mid-1990s"
• "remain property of the City" should be "remain the property of the City"
• "investment plans "deined and funded" by the state" is "deined" supposed to be "designed" or a different word?
• "The first trams appeared in 1870 and in about 1900 were in a crisis exacerbated by the monopolisation of the companies, a process initiated against the electrification of the system." - not totally clear on what this sentence is trying to say
• "In this context, the first proposals for the building of an underground system were made, along with requests for government grants: first, in 1886, and several more in 1889, but the Ministry of Interior (Ministerio del Interior, in Spanish) denied the city administration the power to license building in the subsoil of the City." seems like a massive run-on sentence I would advise you to rewrite it.
• "When in 1894 it was decided to construct the Congress building in its present location" rewrite to something along the way of "In 1894, when it was decided to contruct the..." have the time reference first in the sentence.
• "Miguel Cané, former Mayor of Buenos Aires (1892–1893), also expressed in 1896 the need to build an underground railway similar to the one in London." again the time reference is in the wrong place. How abou "In 1896 Miguel Cané, former Mayor of Buenos Aires (1892–1893), expressedthe need to build an underground railway similar to the one in London."
• "170 thousand" should be "170,000" or "170.000" depending on if you're going British or American in your formatting
• "the company Lacroze Hermanos" should be "the Lacroze Hermanos company"
• "In 1952 was absorbed" should be "In 1952 CTCBA was absorbed"
• "Trains originally ran until 01:00, " none of the time indicators here have AM/PM - I am guessing this is because Argentina uses the 24 hour clock where 1 PM is the same as 13:00??
• "In earlier times the line was planned to run" how about rewording the start to be "Originally the line"?
• "has come" should be "came"
• "network begun with" should be "network began with"
• "second hand" should be "second-hand"
• The statement "will be retired in 2015" is out of date, can you update it?

• I made a couple of small copy edits along the way, hope those are okay with you?

@SegataSanshiro1: - Review complete, putting the article on hold for at 7 days to give you time to work on improvements, if you need more time just let me know.  MPJ-US  01:46, 13 June 2016 (UTC)

@MPJ-DK: Great, thanks! I made the changes you suggested, most had slipped by after having seen the page so many times. As for the 24-hour clock, the UK uses both, but when it comes to timetables and transport, the 24-hour system is generally preferred since it's less ambiguous. Just a few more changes to make, I think a week should be more than enough. Any word on how I can find those deadlinks or is it a case of clicking on them one by one? SegataSanshiro1 (talk) 03:36, 14 June 2016 (UTC)

Thank you for the reminder on the links. Here are the article titles.  MPJ-US  05:17, 14 June 2016 (UTC)

• Antecedentes, Inicios, Desarrollo de la red y Líneas
• APUNTES SOBRE LA HISTORIA DEL TRANVÍA EN BUENOS AIRES
• Interactive Buenos Aires Metro Map

Looks like all issues hasve been addressed so I will read through it o CE more ton see if it is GA level.  MPJ-US  21:40, 15 June 2016 (UTC)

• @SegataSanshiro1: - I think the article is there, I am approving for GA. Congratulations

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Merger proposal

Merge - The page dedicated Line I (Buenos Aires Underground) is quite short and I do not see any possibility of extending it. I think it is enough to talk about the "Line I" on this page, because the line, in the current state, is only a proposal without any defined plan. --Wind of freedom (talk) 16:28, 17 July 2018 (UTC)

Much like the unfounded proposal you made for Line G, you will find that there's plenty of room to expand the article. Again, there was a defined plan (many over the years, actually) and again, simply because something is a project is not grounds for article deletion. If you're going to keep making these proposals, then cite actual WP policies and don't base your reasons on unfounded OR. If you want to help with the project as a whole, consider actually looking for sources and expanding them instead of drawing ill-informed conclusions about the lack thereof simply because the article doesn't cite many currently. SegataSanshiro1 (talk) 20:01, 17 July 2018 (UTC)

Dear @SegataSanshiro1:, instead of deciding how others should behave, just say your opinion without judging. The page in question, is currently a completely nonsense: in the main page "Buenos Aires Underground" there are more information than in the specific one. Consequently, a merger of the pages is, at the present status, the best thing to do. If there was an enlargement of the page, the opinion could change, but the page it's been like this for years and the project in question (the Line I) has been canceled in favor of a BRT. It is also obvious that not all projects should have a specific page on Wikipedia (Wikipedia:Notability), otherwise it would be an encyclopedia dedicated to unrealized projects. --Wind of freedom (talk) 18:21, 25 July 2018 (UTC)

Keep and expand. 77.14.89.49 (talk) 11:26, 3 August 2018 (UTC)

Expand existing page - I spotted the IP user's edits and I'd forgotten that opposition parties campaigned on the promise of building that line and expanding it up to Ciudad Universitaria. Much like Line G, there's plenty of material to add to the page and adding it all here would result in a situation where WP:SPINOFF would be appropriate anyway. SegataSanshiro1 (talk) 03:48, 4 August 2018 (UTC)

Keep From what I can tell, it would be reasonable to expect further coverage and it should be expanded. StudiesWorld (talk) 13:34, 9 June 2019 (UTC)

Closing, given lack of support for a merge, and the support for a keep or expand. Klbrain (talk) 17:11, 22 October 2019 (UTC)

Requested move 25 February 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. Participants were unconvinced that the proposed title is the WP:COMMONNAME in English sources. (non-admin closure) ModernDayTrilobite (talk • contribs) 14:54, 15 March 2023 (UTC)

---

Buenos Aires Underground → Subte – Per WP:COMMONNAME and WP:UE --- Tbf69 P • T 14:00, 25 February 2023 (UTC) This is a contested technical request (permalink). --- Tbf69 P • T 15:04, 25 February 2023 (UTC) — Relisting. BilledMammal (talk) 05:27, 5 March 2023 (UTC)

Relisting comment: Relisting; cannot move as an uncontested technical request as it has been procedurally contested BilledMammal (talk) 05:27, 5 March 2023 (UTC)

• Support we usually use distinct names if metro systems have them—blindlynx 14:58, 5 March 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose "subte" is a Spanish equivalent of "subway" or "metro", and is too generic a term to be the title for this article. "Buenos Aires Subte" sounds awkward. Walt Yoder (talk) 17:51, 5 March 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose per WP:UE. No evidence of English-language sources referring to this as "Subte". 162 etc. (talk) 20:28, 7 March 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose, per User:162 etc. Arbitrarily0 ^(talk) 12:51, 12 March 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Station complexes

Most Wikipedia pages for metro station complexes involve articles for two or more stations being combined into one (for example: Chambers Street–World Trade Center/Park Place/Cortlandt Street station on the New York City Subway). For the Buenos Aires Underground, however, this is not the case, resulting in too many pages (for example, Independencia stations on lines C and E, Retiro stations on lines C and E, and Pueyrredón stations on line B (which itself connects to Corrientes on line H) and line D (which itself connects to Santa Fe on line H)). Because of this, I am proposing that the following station pages be merged:

1. Perú (line A), Catedral (line D), and Bolívar (line E) stations
2. Diagonal Norte (line C), 9 de Julio (line D), and Carlos Pellegrini (line B) stations
3. Correo Central (line E) and Leandro N. Alem (line B) stations
4. Lima (line A) and Avenida del Mayo (line C) stations
5. Independencia (line C) and Independencia (line E) stations)
6. Constitución (line C) and Constitución (line E, former) stations
7. Plaza Miserere (line A) and Once (line H) stations
8. Corrientes (line H) and Pueyrredón (line B) stations
9. Santa Fe (line H) and Pueyrredón (line D) stations
10. Jujuy (line E) and Humberto I (line H) stations
11. Retiro (line C), Retiro (line E), and Retiro (line H) stations

SerenityRune (talk) 01:50, 10 August 2024 (UTC)