Talk:Buckaroo

Merge proposal

I'm suggesting that this one be merged back into the Cowboy article because, essentially, the buckaroo is a regional variant that is adequately covered within the cowboy article and I see no massive amount of information that necessitates a stubby second article. (Unlike vaquero, which does have enough extra material to deserve a spinoff). Essentially, it is the cowboy tradition of the Great Basin region of Nevada and parts of surrounding states, probably the closest to the traditional California-style vaquero in modern day equipment, training, etc. While I respect the concept of differentiating stock herders by different nations or regions, here, I think the cowboy article covers it as these types are both within the United States and basically the term distinguishes one regional variant from another. (And I say this as someone who tends to favor the modern forms of this particular tradition of western horse training over the others. I'm favorably inclined toward the tradition. I just don't think it needs a separate article.) Montanabw^(talk) 04:51, 13 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Agree. The different forms of cowboy in the United States are not varied enough to deserve separate articles. While "cowboys" from Argentina, Spain, Mexico, etc have completely different histories, sports and equipment and deserve separate articles, variations on a theme within the US can be covered in one overarching article. Dana boomer (talk) 13:05, 19 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

On the whole I tend to think stubs are a good idea, as someone might come along and stick an article in one, as happened, I believe, with vaquero. I don't know enough about the culture to have any idea if that might happen here. But if it is going to be merged, I think it should be into that article, not Cowboy, mainly because almost the only thing here is the etymology, which is relevany only there, and secondly because ... well, read the stub! Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 09:44, 20 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Both vaquero and buckaroo were once wholly contained within the cowboy article. I think (would have to review history) that both were once poor quality stubs merged into Cowboy several years ago. Remember, a redirect can, at any time, be edited to be expanded into a "real" article, and in the meantime, a poor quality stub is less helpful than the identical material within a larger article with more detail and content. There are a number of guidelines on this and the debate can go both ways to merge or not. However, here, the "Buckaroo" clearly is a type of American cowboy, not a type of Mexican vaquero. The vaquero is more of a historical figure, and to the extent there are still some people in Mexico that use that term to describe themselves, you don't run across them in the states to any great extent. (another reason that vaquero is worth a separate article.) Vaquero was spun off -- by me -- not long ago, because it is a clear historical antecedent to multiple American (north and south) stock handling traditions, and has enough material to be at least a start or C-class article. I had it sandboxed for about two years (I think) waiting for time, energy and enough stuff to come in to justify it being more than a redirect from cowboy. But "Buckaroo" is, today, a word basically used by most people as a term completely interchangeable with "cowboy" "cowhand" "cowpuncher," etc., and few people really understand that there is any distinction at all. I live on the fringes of the "buckaroo" linguistic and culture region and even here, it's considered by most a quaint term, as in "Little Buckaroo" -- an endearment for little boys (and the name for a small personal pan pizza at a local chain). There are people trying to revive the historic "buckaroo" tradition of the Great Basin, distinguishing it from both the vaquero-inspired California tradition (from which it sprung, mostly) as well as the Texas tradition that is the best-known and most widespread. But essentially, a buckaroo is a kind of cowboy, not a kind of vaquero (unless you want to argue that ALL cowboys are a kind of vaquero, which is OR, as the vaqueros are the ancestors of the modern cowboy tradition, but not the only one nor is the tradition unchanged to the present.) I'll spare you the distinctions between the rawhide reata and the hemp or synthetic rope/lariat, the dally roping style from the tie-down style of roping cattle, the Wade saddle tree versus other designs, etc... partly because I'd have to unearth about a dozen back issues of Western Horseman to research it all, and I've really not got the time at the moment, maybe some day. But even so, the most one would get is another paragraph or so on equipment. For now, it's better to be part of a larger whole. Montanabw^(talk) 23:48, 20 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

An anon IP added this to the article, but I think it was intended as a chat comment: (Montanabw^(talk) 17:20, 30 September 2011 (UTC)) "Please note that, according to the definition, "cowboy" is the super-set of "buckaroo". There are cowboys in North Dakota, but none of them are "buckaroos". 138.88.39.135[reply]

Revert

I have again changed the page to bring it more in line with normal disambiguation pages. The version from Montanabw was not bad, but gave difficulties on other pages and templates. Maybe there is another solution then the one I have introduced, but Montanas version was not the one. Main problem was that it made "Buckaroo" point to "Buckaroo", without any possiblity to solve the link to the disambiguation page. Night of the Big Wind _talk 02:56, 11 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

To make it more clear: the problem arose here: Template:Mounted stock herders. And the problem is still there, after correcting the wrong link that was introduced there. Night of the Big Wind _talk 02:59, 11 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Buckaroo the job should disambiguate via piped link to cowboy, this was consensus of those working on the articles. I think I fixed the link on the template (the template itself was created with some minor controversy, some of us think it unnecessary, though not worth a huge editing spat). If there are other links that need to be fixed, just ask for help, I'll be glad to clean things up. A "Buckaroo" per WP:PRIMARY, or at least original historical use, is a type of cowboy, the article was split as a content fork from cowboy, the split was opposed and the material has now been re-merged back into Cowboy, where it takes a paragraph or two. Basically, I just am after seeing the Buckaroo-as-cowboy link put first on the page as ts primary meaning, with everything else secondary, all the songs, etc.. The rest of the formatting, I shall defer to those who worry about formatting of disambigs. Montanabw^(talk) 04:05, 11 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

After a last linkfix (Cowboy >> Cowboy#California tradition) in the template, it looks ok now. Night of the Big Wind _talk 05:56, 11 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for trying to sort out the muddle. However, montanabw has misremembered here. This article was not split off from Cowboy, but from Vaquero, of which word "Buckaroo" is supposedly a corruption. The relevant edits were this and this. As already suggested above in September, the material from here should if anywhere go back to Vaquero, as probably should the redirects.

Oh, now that I look at Cowboy, I see that montanabw forgot to merge the material there anyway. What exactly is going on here? Is this in fact another series of edits motivated by no more than personal spite? While I really don't give a damn one way or the other, it may be that best thing would be simply to restore the status quo and remove the merge tag. The stub was doing no-one any harm. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 17:24, 11 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

JLAN, you created the Buckaroo stub as an undeeded content fork against consensus at WPEQ, the merge tag was there for a very long time without action, I merged at the request of another editor, and you forget that some of the material from cowboy was originally moved to vaquero (an article which I re-created, incidentally, I believe with your input back when you were being nice) And yes, JLAN, you ARE wikistalking me out of your own personal spite, that is really quite clear to me. Now pretty please with maple sugar on it, please stop doing so. The material in the buckaroo article originated from the cowboy article -- the buckaroo IS a cowboy, a regional variant, (as I have explained countless times already) and cowboys in general are, basically, ALL the USA descendants of the Mexican vaquero. I hope that settles this matter. Montanabw^(talk) 17:41, 11 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Just a gentle caution, JLAN: When you said "Is this in fact another series of edits motivated by no more than personal spite?", you were straying out of WP:AGF and into WP:NPA territory. Please try not to become too emotionally involved in what are basically content and merge differences of opinion; nobody here is "out to get you", really. Pesky (talk …stalk!) 19:22, 11 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]