Talk:Bryant Park/GA1

GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Reviewer: Hog Farm (talk · contribs) 05:12, 3 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Epicgenius: I'll pick up this review. This one will probably take me a couple days to get through, just because there's a lot of sources to check, but I'll try and get this one reviewed in the next several days.

Criteria

1. Well-written

Prose clear/concise/understandable

Spelling/Grammar

MOS lead

MOS layout

Buzzwords/fiction/lists

2. Verifiable

List of references properly formatted

Inline citations from reliable sources

No OR

No COPYVIO

3. Broad in coverage

Covers main aspects

Stays on topic

4. Neutral

5. Stable

6. Illustrated (if possible)

Images are tagged for copyright status and have valid fair-use rationale, if applicable

Media relevant

Comments

Lead The two firms designing the park are called "architect". Is architect the proper word to refer to an entire firm? I don't know, and will defer to your judgment.

@Hog Farm: Rephrased as "architecture firms". epicgenius (talk) 17:08, 3 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Infobox I can't find citations for the 9.603 acre size or the subway access parameters in article text.

Fixed. NYC Parks lists this park as 9.6 acres. epicgenius (talk) 17:08, 3 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Description "Besides serving as a "lunchroom" for midtown workers and a place of respite for pedestrians, the lawn also serves as the seating area for some of the park's major events, such as Bryant Park Movie Nights, Broadway in Bryant Park, and Square Dance. The lawn's season runs from February until October, when it is closed to make way for Bank of America Winter Village.[4]" The at the end of this doesn't seem to say anything about the other activities in the park, or the date it closes for the Winter Village (although the Wayback Machine page I got was rather sparse, so maybe it just didn't load all the way).

I have added the appropriate sources. epicgenius (talk) 17:08, 3 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Renaming and library construction "between the Astor and Lenox Libraries, the NYPL's direct predecessor." The way this seems to me, the Astor and Lennox Libraries are two libraries, and the plural would be the right case here.

Done. epicgenius (talk) 17:08, 3 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

"Since Bryant Park itself was located several feet above the surrounding streets, an iron fence, hedge, and embankment wall were built on the north, west, and south borders to separate the park from the bordering sidewalks. Benches were also installed along the retaining walls. Bryant Park's interior was split into three lawns, divided by a pair of west–east gravel paths that aligned roughly with the sidewalks of 41st Street on the west end of the park. Four stone stairways were built: one each from Sixth Avenue's intersections with 40th and 42nd Streets, and one each from 40th and 42nd Streets between Fifth and Sixth Avenues.[28]" - Is this all in the citation at the end? I can't get a zoom-in of the clipping to actually see if all of these details are cited in the one source.

Yes, all of these were cited in this clipping. You can "show article text (OCR)" but this isn't too good. epicgenius (talk) 17:08, 3 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

1930s restoration "the Sixth Avenue elevated cast both literal and metaphorical shadows over the park" Something seems to be off grammatically here.

Fixed. epicgenius (talk) 17:08, 3 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

" the elevated was torn down in 1938" I'm starting to think that "elevated" is a noun in this usage, not an adjective.

Yes, that is correct. "Elevated" is used as a noun here, as is the case with other elevated railways. epicgenius (talk) 17:08, 3 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Mid-20th century The speakers at the event list is rather long (11 entries in a row). I can see why you want to list them all, and they're all Wikipedia notable. It would be nice if the flow of names could be broken up, (mayor John Lindsay, senator Eugene McCarthy, etc.). You're an experienced nominator/reviewer, I'll trust your judgment on this also.

I just trimmed this. epicgenius (talk) 17:08, 3 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Is Richard M. Clurman likely to meet WP:GNG? If so, keep the redlink in there to encourage article creation, but if not, the redlink should probably be removed.

Yes, as a former parks commissioner he is probably noteworthy of an article. epicgenius (talk) 17:08, 3 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Formation of corporations Biederman and the broken windows theory are not mentioned in the citations.

Fixed now. epicgenius (talk) 17:08, 3 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Renovation "The spaces would be composed of two smaller 187-seat pavilions" I only have partial access to the NYT site, but I can't find a citation of the 187 statement in there. Maybe I just missed it.

Removed it. epicgenius (talk) 17:08, 3 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Private operation "The Bryant Park Corporation (BPC) is the largest U.S. effort to provide private management, with private funding, to a public park. Formerly named the Bryant Park Restoration Corporation (BPRC), the organization was given its current name in 2009. BPC also oversees the Bryant Park Management Corporation (BPMC), which was created to manage the Bryant Park business improvement district.[153]" - the largest statement does not seem to be borne up by the citation.

Trimmed the unsourced materials. epicgenius (talk) 17:08, 3 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

"To address these fears, BPC makes all events free and open to the public. One exception was the New York Fashion Week shows that formerly took over the park for two weeks in the winter and late summer each year. BPC cofounder Dan Biederman often publicly expressed his frustration that the fashion shows were not under BPC's control. "They pay us a million dollars. It's a million dollars I would happily do without," he told the Los Angeles Times.[155]" Biederman, the Fashion Week, and making all events free and open to the public don't seem to be mentioned in the source you link to.

I think I know what the problem is. The quote is mentioned in the original source (LA Times itself) but not the Bryant Park press release that took only an excerpt from the original. I added a newspapers.com link. epicgenius (talk) 17:08, 3 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

"BPC was particularly frustrated that the fashion shows dominated the park during two crucial times: in late summer, when the weather is perfect for park visitors; and in early February, necessitating the early closure of the park's popular free-admission ice-skating rink.[156]" - Cited to a newspaper, but with no link. Is it going to be possible to get a link, or is this newspaper only accessible in physical copy?

Also added a link. epicgenius (talk) 17:08, 3 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Carousel - Fabricon Carousel Company - Redlink, same advice as above.

I'm sure they might be notable, but just don't have an article yet, so I left the link. epicgenius (talk) 17:08, 3 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The names of the carousel in the text and in the image caption are different.

Fixed. epicgenius (talk) 17:08, 3 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Restrooms - Is the 315 square feet figure backed up by the NYT citation? I can't access that one.

Yes. epicgenius (talk) 17:08, 3 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Is the Reading Room related to the restrooms? It's described in the Restrooms section.

No, I split it. epicgenius (talk) 17:08, 3 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

In popular culture "The final three designers on the fashion design TV show Project Runway would show their final collections when Fashion Week was held in Bryant Park" - Is there a better way to phrase this that highlights more that the TV show took place in Bryant Park at the end?

I'm considering removing the entire section, but this might not sit well with some editors. epicgenius (talk) 17:08, 3 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Epicgenius: That's it for the main article text, I'll get to reviewing the individual sources and the images soon. Hog Farm (talk) 15:24, 3 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the review. I think I have addressed all your comments. epicgenius (talk) 17:08, 3 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Images - The "looking east" image has a thing on its licensing information stating that it needs to be attributed when used.

References Ref 2 is a thing I've ran into several times on GA reviews - the NRHP search function. I've never been able to figure out this function. Is there a way to get more specific results for user like me who struggle with the search functions.

Added link to specific link. epicgenius (talk) 23:42, 3 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Refs 4-7 all bring me to the exact same page, the Bryant Park Organization homepage. It does not mention any of these more specific subpages.

Fixed. epicgenius (talk) 23:42, 3 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Ref 16 does not take me to the history page, it takes me to the homepage. Looks like the Bryant Park website reworked itself recently.

Fixed. epicgenius (talk) 23:42, 3 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Ref 40 is labeled as a blog from the park organization's official website. This seems to have some oversight, and my gut tells me this a reliable, albeit self-published source.

Citations checked through #106, will get back to the rest later. Hog Farm (talk) 21:22, 3 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Continuing checking references:

Ref 144 #2 - the second part of the See for instance - Is "poopreport.com" a RS? The page you link to was posted by "Dave", and it's not apparent how much editorial oversight Dave had. I'm concerned this source may be user-generated or something like that to some extent.

Removed. epicgenius (talk) 23:42, 3 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Ref 155, the City Room one - I'm getting a 503 error trying to open the source. Is this my computer or the source that's not working here?

It may just be the server being down. This happens a lot with City Room refs. I accessed it just fine, though. epicgenius (talk) 23:42, 3 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Ref 167, the monuments ref. Another thing that seems to have been a change in the Bryant Park website - no discussion of monuments on the page, likely due to a URL move of the subpage. Ref 168 cites the exact same thing and works, so the Bryant parks monuments ref can probably be removed w/ no harm.

Fixed - same as above, Bryant Park recently redid its URLs. epicgenius (talk) 23:42, 3 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Ref 181, City Room again, but 503 error again. Possibly just temporary website issue.

Same as above. epicgenius (talk) 23:42, 3 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Refs 180 and 182, the Bryant Park Le Carousel and Le Carousel Magique ones. Again, takes me to the homepage with no information about the subtopic.

Ref 195, "Our Beautiful Christmas Tree". Yet again takes me to the homepage, not the subpage. Most of the refs to the Bryant Park website have taken me to the homepage, so they probably moved stuff around on their websites. WP:WAYBACK might help.

Ref 196, same as above.

Ref 201, "Movie Nights", another link to the BPC homepage, not the applicable subcontent.

Ref 204, "Things to Do", see above.

Ref 206 "Eat and Drink", and again.

All fixed - same as above, Bryant Park recently redid its URLs. I just had to change the URL format. epicgenius (talk) 23:42, 3 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Ref 211-215, How reliable are these sources? Some movie websites just ain't very reliable.

Ref 216. This does not appear to be an appropriate use of YouTube as a citation. (You said you were considering removing the In popular culture section in a comment above, I would support that decision.)

Ref 217 - My computer said this connection is risky and not secure. Maybe not a good citation, then.

Yeah, I'm just going to remove this entire section as very dubious. epicgenius (talk) 23:42, 3 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Epicgenius: That's all. A few notes left for the sources and images, mostly easy fixes there. Hog Farm (talk) 22:52, 3 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Hog Farm: Thanks for the extensive source review. I have fixed these now. epicgenius (talk) 23:42, 3 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Epicgenius: Okay, one last thing (I promise this is the last thing). The very last reference is broken. Once this gets fixed, I'll pass it for GA. I would fix it myself, but I'm not 100% sure what happened (looks like the first instance of a named reference was removed/altered, maybe a bot fix). Hog Farm (talk) 00:16, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Hog Farm: Thanks, I fixed that - it was broken when the NRIS ref was removed. epicgenius (talk) 01:23, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.