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Motto

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The motto quoted is that of a specific clan and family. It is wrong to assert it's the motto of everyone named Brown. I've adjusted the paragraph to reflect that. Rojomoke 11:58, 8 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I removed the whole thing. It has nothing really to do with the surname, just one family. That kind of stuff ought to stay in the clan article.--Celtus (talk) 07:29, 30 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I disagree that is has nothing to do with the surname. --< Nicht Nein! (talk) 10:02, 30 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Why do you disagree? heraldic mottoes belong to an individual, not an entire surname. In this case, Floreat majestas is apparently the motto of the chief of Clan Broun. This article is about the surname Brown, not about a clan chief's motto (whose surname isn't even Brown).--Celtus (talk) 07:36, 8 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
How did it "assert it's the motto of everyone named Brown"? That is not the message I recieve [sic]. Furthermore there should be more information not less. Describe that the clan's usage of the name is not directly linked to the surname in use, etcetera. --< Nicht Nein! (talk) 12:18, 9 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
One of the most commons surnames in the English speaking world, with over one million Americans currently using it, and we've got one man's motto in the article. And to top it off this man doesn't even have this surname. Do you see my point? Could you please state why you disagree with Rojomoke and my original comments, you haven't really made a case at all.--Celtus (talk) 04:54, 10 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Could you please explain how your reversions are making the article better. You claimed wanted to make a better article yet you reverted edits to the etymology, history of the name, and also removed 'citation needed' tags un-referenced information. You want to include the motto of the chief of Clan Broun, yet you remove the 'Scottish surnames' cat. It's hard to understand your reasoning, so maybe you could explain it here? Come on man, you have to collaborate to make a better wikipedia article. It shouldn't be about 'winning' an edit war.--Celtus (talk) 04:11, 11 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Incorrect punctuation, bad grammar. You had removed the citation needed tag and I restored it. You are failing to add references for the Irish and Scottish etymology. I don't think ancestry.com is very encyclopedic, they are a business looking to make money and will say anything. Furthermore you seem to be copying their article word for word. You sound like a deceitful politician. If you think their is an edit war to win you are coming to this field with a bad heart and mind. --< Nicht Nein! (talk) 12:39, 11 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Hopefully this hasn't become personal. The only reason i'm editing this thing is to make it a better article. Though your recent edits have been pure reversions, i haven't seen you add one piece of referenced material to the article yet. The Ancestry weblink cites Dictionary of American Family Names, Oxford University Press, ISBN 0-19-508137-4. That should be a reliable source. The Irish and Scottish origins of the name are clearly shown in that web ref. While you claim i am copying the Ancestry weblink (citing a book published by Oxford) word-for-word, you also claim the article has incorrect punctuation and bad grammar. An Oxford publication with poor punctuation and bad grammar? And if you were truly worried about the quality of web-references, those that "are a business looking to make money and will say anything", you wouldn't re-insert the scotsconnection.com reference as you did for the motto—"Welcome To Scots Connection, the premier Scottish store for the finest tartans, Kilts, Highland dress, Clan crests, Scottish jewellery and gifts", not exactly encyclopaedic is it? So nothing you've said really makes much sense. But if the punctuation/grammar/spelling truly offends you, no one is stopping you from fixing it. I certainly won't take it personally if you take a crack at improving it. Wikipedia is about collaboration, not the total control of content at all costs. So... i've stated my issues with the motto, and all you need to do is state your reasoning. Hopefully the Irish/Scottish origin, and web-ref thing is all clear. I've re-written the English/Irish/Scottish etymology and history. It should be ok, but go ahead and copyedit it, if you like. The German stuff is un-refenced, and i'm not sure what it has to do with this particular surname.--Celtus (talk) 05:38, 12 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Nothing personal. There was a citation added by another person that you had removed. I am definitely not trying to control the content. There were sentences that seemed copied word for word, not the entirety of your addition. The overall quality of your addition was the problem. Now you have made a good addition.
Now if you want the article to be solely about the "English, Irish and Scottish" variant you need to rename the article to accurately represent that. The article is for any usage of the name Brown as a surname. As for the clan usage, it does not claim that anything or everything has to do with it. Just that it has usage among a clan. --< Nicht Nein! (talk) 15:06, 12 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The article is about the whole surname "Brown". Not "Braun", not "Brohn", or any other variant. We don't have any references that state "Brown" originates in any country other than England, Ireland, Scotland (and the US). So there's no need to re-name anything. About the clan: there are loads of things that could be listed about the clan. Same goes every other "Brown" family or person. Should we list every Brown's car, address, hair-colour, girlfriend, birthday, pet? No, we should stick to things relevant to the surname, like history, similar names, locations, statistics and stuff. Just like any other surname article. Remember a clan is one family and a motto belongs to one person. This article is about a surname that is much larger than one family.--Celtus (talk) 05:38, 15 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
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