Talk:British folk rock/Archive 1

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Archive 1

Scope

I reckon Blowzabella and "10,000 Maniacs" belong here. How come Malicorne is mentioned in the article, but is not included in the list called "Electric folk Groups"? Ditto Pogues and Men they could Hang? There are individual albums by rock artists, which come close: - "sean Nos Nua" by Sinead O'Connor, and "The Ship's Carpenter" by Natalie Merchant. In Scotland there is "Iron Horse". The Scots group Malenky probably qualifies, but I have heard only one track by them. Mr Fox did only one or two songs that are traditional, so if they qualify, how about Mike Oldfield? I'm also seduced by "Pyewackett". The first 2 or 3 albums by "Runrig" also qualify. You should also consider Clive Palmer, Eliza Carthy, Chumbawamba, Equation, L'Ham de Foc, Mago De Oz, Martin Stephenson, Uiscedwr, Varttina, Trees and the Woods Band.

I'm probably own my own here, but I consider "Skiffle" was the earliest "Electric folk", and "House of the Rising Sun" by the Animals was the first folk-rock hit, beating Fairport and Steeleye by 5 years.

There are two other similar movements in history: - "Western Swing" is a collision between country and jazz. "Rebetiko" (Rembica, rebetica) is a collision between Greek folk music, Turkish folk music, and jazz. It would nice to see a perfunctory acknowledgement of those styles.

I once attempted to wrote an article on "The Guv'nor" (Hutchings) series, but within seconds it was tagged as "confused", so I deleted it immediately. Given that no two tracks are by the same line-up, how can you possibly write about those 5 albums? Ogg 20:12, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Well, I'm not a real expert -- I know bits and pieces here and there, but my knowledge is still quite incomplete. However, I will say this much -- I'm under the impression that the Pogues are actually Celtic punk, which is different. You'll notice that that's linked under "subgenres". This page is still very much a work in process; it was created by collecting bits of information from existing articles and pasting them all in the one page. The bit that mentions the Celtic punk bands should probably be replaced with a line that says "This led to Celtic punk".

I agree there are individual songs/albums that fit the genre by other artists (cf. the Led Zeppelin reference on the page).
As for the list of electric folk groups, I presume you mean the category, but that's also a work in progress :).
As far as Mr. Fox goes, I only know what I could glean from the Wikipedia page and the page that it links to. Maybe they don't belong.
As far as the list of other artists you supplied, thanks, and hopefully I'll get to them eventually. But at the moment, I'm the only one signed up at Wikipedia:WikiProject Roots music/Anglo-Celtic electric folk task force, and I have work outside of Wikipedia too :).
Skiffle was a new one on me. Question -- does skiffle comply with the criteria listed at the top of the electric folk page?
As for the other similar movements, while I think both of those are interesting, I don't see that they're closer to electric folk than a number of other genres. You may be interested in music genres, which mentions that most modern styles are fusional, and in List of music genres, which should list items like that (feel free to add them to that list if they're not there). You could also make genre infoboxes for those pages, and then link to them as fusion genres from the pages they originate from.

-- TimNelson 03:33, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Jack the Lad?

There is now a rather good graphic, featuring "Jack The Lad". They have an article within wikipedia, but there is no link to it from here. I have my doubts whether they ever recorded traditional folk songs. Can somebody confirm or deny this? Ogg 14:08, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

I basically use the "50%+ traditional" as the deciding line. From that, I'd say 2 of their albums are, and the others aren't, although I think they all contain some traditional material. Their discography is relevant here. -- TimNelson 05:48, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Electric English?

It is unclear whether electric folk does or does not incorporate Celtic Rock. It seems inconsistent to claim Breton electric music, but not that from Ireland, Scotland and Wales etc. Should all these be treated under the separate article on Celtic Rock? This would leave electric folk as a largely English and, somewhat smaller, institution. --Sabrebd (talk) 14:39, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

I'd say they're separate things, yes. Largely English, with some American is how I'd also tend to characterise it (cf. New St. George & Broadside Electric for the American part). There's probably a fair bit of overlap. But here's my argument:

There is Electric Folk music that is not Celtic
There is Celtic Rock music that is not Electric Folk

Having said that, including all the Celtic Rock stuff here would expand the article hugely, and make it more difficult to find information on the non-Celtic bands. That wouldn't be a good set of reasons, but when added to the fact that the Celtic Rock page probably does a better job on those groups than would be done here, I think the argument for keeping that divide in place is a strong one.

HTH,

-- TimNelson (talk)

Fair point. It was more a question of inclusion in the chart. I think the current solution is probably the best, as this is now already quite a long article.--Sabrebd (talk) 07:01, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

That influential Manx scene

The opening section—opening section, mind you—has "surrounding Celtic cultures of ... and the Isle of Man".
Even when you look at the Celtic rock article, Man has been shoehorned in there too. It's pure tokenism. It's like how every TV programme needs its token Manx character. And why are we so quick to forget that seminal Orcadian scene?

You are aware of the research in the past year or two that demonstrates that us Anglo-Saxons are in fact just a great big bunch of Celts? Yes, it's been proven. We Saxons stepped onto the dock at Brighton, romanced the swooning local Celtic shepherdesses, and now we're all Celts together.
Varlaam (talk) 19:03, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

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