Talk:LNER Class ES1

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Untitled

A nicely-presented stub - well-done - but the loco could not have been commissioned by British Rail in 1905. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.80.68.90 (talk) 08:38, 6 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Designation

Since British Rail Class EF1 stands for Electric Freight 1, I think it is a reasonable assumption that British Rail Class EE1 stands for Electric Express 1 and British Rail Class ES1 stands for Electric Shunting 1. Can anybody confirm this? Biscuittin (talk) 17:21, 11 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

not exactly a confirmation, but the link at the bottom of the article page LNER encyclopedia states "these two engines did not have an official classification until 4th October 1945 when they were designated as Class ES1 (Electric Shunting 1). Despite the lack of an official classification, early photographs also show them with the words "CLASS ELECTRIC 1" on their bufferbeams." Oxyman42 (talk) 18:13, 3 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Possible change to the title of this article

This article is currently named in accordance the Wikipedia:WikiProject UK Railways naming conventions for British rolling stock allocated a TOPS number. A proposal to change this convention and/or its scope is being discussed at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject UK Railways/Archive 20#Naming convention, where your comments would be welcome. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Avicennasis (talk • contribs) 18:47, 10 March 2011‎

Title

The title doesn't make sense according to the article which gives alternatives of

NER Electric locomotives 1 & 2
LNER Electric locomotives 1 & 2
NER 0-4-4-0 electric locomotive (as per [1])
LNER Electric locomotives 6480 & 6481
LNER Class ES1
British Rail 26500 & 26501

As it reads they does not appear to have been an ES1 class under BR.Oranjblud (talk) 01:47, 1 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

What gives you that impression? The paragraph dealing with classification states:

Early photographs show the locomotives with "CLASS ELECTRIC 1" painted on the bufferbeams, but this does not appear in official records.^[2] In common with other LNER electric locomotives, no classification was given to these locomotives until 4 October 1945, when nos. 1 & 2 were classified ES1 (Electric Shunting 1).^[1]

The paragraph then goes on with renumbering of the locomotives from 1944 onwards, but makes no further mention of classification. I suspect that you are confusing numbering with classification. As with steam locomotives, BR continued to use pre-nationalisation classifications: it was only the running numbers that they altered. --Redrose64 (talk) 09:55, 1 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

this bit :"BR continued to use pre-nationalisation classifications" - is there a source for that? I'm not familiar with what happened at nationalisation - is there a precedent for this eg does GWR Castle Class become BR Castle Class etc ? Oranjblud (talk) 11:15, 1 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Yes - see any pre-1968 Ian Allan combined volume - there are several reprints available - this 1956/57 one for example. BR did extend the former LMS system of power classifications to cover those from the other three Group companies, but these did not supersede the existing nomenclature. The "Castles", for example, were placed in power class 7P - but saying "BR Class 7P" is highly ambiguous, since it could also mean the SR Lord Nelson class, the LMS Royal Scot Class, etc. --Redrose64 (talk) 11:51, 1 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

ok thanks.Oranjblud (talk) 12:30, 1 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Rename to LNER Class ES1?

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: move the page, per the discussion below. Dekimasuよ! 04:09, 11 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

British Rail Class ES1 → LNER Class ES1 – Rename to reflect the railway company at the time they were named. They long predate BR!

They could also be named as NER Class ES1, reflecting their original builder. However they don't seem to have had a distinct class identity at that time, so that name is itself a problem. Andy Dingley (talk) 17:44, 4 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Andy, you brought up this exact matter previously, at Talk:British Rail Class EE1#Rename. See also threads above, such as #Possible change to the title of this article. --Redrose64 (talk) 18:26, 4 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Support. Based on precedent from discussions about the naming of rolling stock that post-dates BR (see e.g. talk:British Rail Class 66), the important point is not which company built, ordered or ran these locomotives but whose classification system the "ES1" class is part of. From discussions further up this page it seems that "ES1" was an LNER classification that BR inherited and continued using (much like the privatised railway has inherited the TOPS scheme from BR) so LNER Class ES1 would be the correct name for this article. Thryduulf (talk) 20:29, 4 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Support per nom, the engineering design evidently predates BR. In ictu oculi (talk) 03:57, 5 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Question Did the NER give these locomotives a classification? If so, the article should be housed at "NER Class foo". Otherwise, the proposal under discussion is one that I Support. Mjroots (talk) 21:52, 5 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
@Mjroots: see the reply at #Designation and my first comment at #Title. --Redrose64 (talk) 22:40, 5 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Which means that this article should be at either NER Electric Class 1 or LNER Class ES1. Thryduulf (talk) 23:07, 5 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think we can claim a "Class 1" for these locos under the NER. Like the other surprisingly many electric locos of the NER, these were few enough that they were numbered as individual locos, but never bundled or named as a coherent class. That didn't happen until the LNER. Andy Dingley (talk) 23:19, 5 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.