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Really not so sure of the additions

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The Brisbane event itself only starts its history in 2009, so they don't consider anything else the same event. Now it's one thing if you squeeze Gold Coast events.... at least they are in the same zipcode. But Adelaide is over 1200 miles away, so it is not the same event. Sure, sometimes tennis moves things to a new venue and they keep the same history, but Brisbane has not kept the same history. I think Brisbane should be it's own event entirely and South Australia should have it's own article. Those are my thoughts. Fyunck(click) (talk) 10:19, 11 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

This was also discussed previously right here. Fyunck(click) (talk) 10:27, 11 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Hi the sources I provided state Tennis Australia moved the event to Brisbane if you can find a source that says its not the same event we can proceed with suggestions.--Navops47 (talk) 12:30, 11 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Okay so this is where it gets very confusing at tennis archives the South Australian Championships are listed here (1889-1974), on tennis base its the same list tournament but till 2008 and also says South Australian Open played on grass till 1987 then hard in Adelaide. At tennis archives the Australian Hard Courts here and at tennis base list this tournament with completely different winners to the SA Champ/Open and at different locations e.g. Hobart, Canterbury, Brisbane, Sydney etc date range for both (1938-1987). Additional sources I have found are also very confusing – Sydney Morning Herald 6 July 2006 'Tennis Australia today announced the national men's and women's hard court championships would both be played in Brisbane from 2009' – One India News 7 July 2006 'The Australian men's and women's hard court championships, which have been held respectively at Adelaide and the Gold Coast, will be combined in one event at Brisbane – Brisbane International News 11 January 2009, 'The inaugural Brisbane International has been branded a resounding success replacing the smaller men’s ATP event in Adelaide and women’s WTA event on the Gold Coast, the financial success is a huge endorsement of Tennis Australia’s combined Brisbane move' – Sports Marketing 7 July 2006 'The event will involve bringing together the existing Next Generation Adelaide International for men with the Mondial Australian Women’s Hardcourts on the Gold Coast in the one state-of-the-art venue' – The Age 8 July 2006 ' ONE of the world's oldest tennis tournaments, the 126-year-old Adelaide championships, will be moved to Brisbane in 2009. Plans were announced yesterday to absorb the Adelaide hard court event and the women's equivalent on the Gold Coast into a combined tournament' – ABC TV Australia ' The South Australian premier Mike Rann says Tennis Australia has made the wrong decision in transferring the Australian Men's Hardcourt Championship from Adelaide to Brisbane. Adelaide has been the venue for the championship for more than 100 years but from 2009 Brisbane will take on the event. This event Australian Men's Hardcourt Championships is a re-direct to Brisbane. The Adelaide tournaments template lists the South Australian Champs, South Australian Open, Australian Hard Courts together and Next Generation Hardcourts/Adelaide (1972-2008) together. So if Tennis Archives and Tennis Base have different lists of winners for SA Champs/Open and Australian HC Champs why are the sources linking Adelaide's history to Brisbane.--Navops47 (talk) 13:43, 11 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
No question, it is confusing. It's sort of like the confusion with the US National Indoor Championships that was talked about in 2015. Tennis events can get pretty wacky when the event is allowed to move yet retain its history. But the official Brisbane tournament history only starts in 2009 so perhaps that is where we should also start it. I think the Gold Coast and South Australian tournaments are now defunct. So much of the confusion is caused by the fact that the Australian men's and women's hard court championships is not really a tournament. It gets attached to the best hard court event and people start to think it's the same thing. For years we had the wrong winners at the Memphis event per sourcing that was bad, because of the exact same thing. But surely Brisbane is not the South Australian tournament being 1000 miles away and not close to South Australia. In you quote you can see that South Australian officials were quite upset at losing the event. South Australia tennis was gone but the Australian Hard Court title moved up north. Fyunck(click) (talk) 19:29, 11 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I agree this tournament should really be from 2009 only this is what I have extrapolated for the South Australian Championships begins in Adelaide and was played on grass from 1889 until 1976. In 1977 the event is renamed the Marlborough South Australian Men's Tennis Classic. There was no event in 1978. In 1979 it is renamed the South Australian Open in 1987 the event switched from Grass to Hard until 1989 when it is renamed the Australian Men's Hard Court Championships. Moving onto the history of the actual Australian Hard Court Championships the event begins in 1938 and is played on Clay until 1977 with various cities hosting the event. The tournament continues in that name from 1978 until 1987 but has now switched to Hard Courts. From 1988 until 1989 there is no event, however it re-emerges in Adelaide in 1990 as the Australian HC Champs. In 1999 the event is renamed the AAPT Championships until 2004. In 2005 it is renamed the Adelaide Next Generation Hard Courts. In 2006 until 2008 the event is renamed again to the Adelaide Next Generation International. In 2009 the tournament ceases and is moved to Brisbane where it begins as a new tournament the Brisbane International. As I said early both Tennis Archives and Tennis Base have two separate Rolls of Honor listed for the South Australian and the Australian Hard Courts. Take this into consideration the table below includes the actual Australian HC champions from inception till 1987 I have left out the years 1988 to 1989 as that was the South Australian Open and should be in a new article the South Australian Championships . From 1990 until 2008 I have now included the winners from the all the previous Adelaide events. Also if we now create these articles to get around the re-directs we can simply add (tennis) to the new Australian Hard Court Championships article. Unfortunately I do not know how you re-direct the other stand alone articles for Adelaide the ones I have mentioned above like AAPT etc. Do you agree with my findings? and if I create these articles can you do the re-directs? We can move the Adelaide Tournaments template into the new Australian HC page let me know.--Navops47 (talk) 04:35, 12 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The new draft of the article is here.--Navops47 (talk) 05:28, 12 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
YEAR Location SURFACE WINNER RUNNER-UP SCORE
2008 ADELAIDE H Michaël Llodra Jarkko Nieminen 6–3, 6–4
2007 ADELAIDE H Novak Djokovic Chris Guccione 6–3, 6–7(6–8), 6–4
2006 ADELAIDE H Florent Serra Xavier Malisse 6–3, 6–4
2005 ADELAIDE H Joachim Johansson Taylor Dent 7–5, 6–3
2004 ADELAIDE H Dominik Hrbatý Michaël Llodra 6–4, 6–0
2003 ADELAIDE H Nikolay Davydenko Kristof Vliegen 6–2, 7–6(7–3)
2002 ADELAIDE H Tim Henman Mark Philippoussis 6–4, 6–7(6–8), 6–3
2001 ADELAIDE H Tommy Haas Nicolás Massú 6–3, 6–1
2000 ADELAIDE H Lleyton Hewitt Thomas Enqvist 3–6, 6–3, 6–2
1999 ADELAIDE H Thomas Enqvist Lleyton Hewitt 4–6, 6–1, 6–2
1998 ADELAIDE H Lleyton Hewitt Jason Stoltenberg 3–6, 6–3, 7–6(7–4)
1997 ADELAIDE H Todd Woodbridge Scott Draper 6–2, 6–1
1996 ADELAIDE H Yevgeny Kafelnikov Byron Black 7–6(7–0), 3–6, 6–1
1995 ADELAIDE H Jim Courier Arnaud Boetsch 6–2, 7–5
1994 ADELAIDE H Yevgeny Kafelnikov Alexander Volkov 6–4, 6–3
1993 ADELAIDE H Nicklas Kulti Christian Bergström 3–6, 7–5, 6–4
1992 ADELAIDE H Goran Ivanišević Christian Bergström 1–6, 7–6(7–5), 6–4
1991 ADELAIDE H Sweden Nicklas Kulti Michael Stich 6–3, 1–6, 6–2
1990 ADELAIDE H Austria Thomas Muster Jimmy Arias 3–6, 6–2, 7–5
1987 SYDNEY H John Frawley Johan Anderson 6-2 6-3
1986 SYDNEY H Peter Doohan Desmond Tyson 6-3 6-2
1985 SYDNEY H Peter Doohan Bruce Derlin 6-4 6-4
1984 SYDNEY H Peter Doohan Jonathan Canter 2-6 6-3 6-3
1983 SYDNEY H Simon Youl John Frawley 3-6 7-5 6-2
1982 SYDNEY H Pat Cash Craig A. Miller 7-5 6-7 6-2
1981 SYDNEY H Kim Warwick Greg Whitecross 6-3 7-6
1980 HOBART H Shlomo Glickstein Robert Van't Hof 7-6 6-4
1979 HOBART H Guillermo Vila Mark Edmonson 6-4 6-4
1977 MELBOURNE C David Carter Mal Anderson 6-1 6-3
1976 SYDNEY C Terry Rocavert Warren Maher 6-4 6-7 2-6 7-6 6-4
1975 MELBOURNE C Peter McNamara John Marks 6-2 6-2 6-2
1974 GYMPIE C Ulrich Pinner Kjell Johansson 6-3 6-2 4-6 7-5
1973 ROCKDALE C Ross Case Kim Warwick 6-3 6-1 6-0
1972 SOUTHPORT C Geoff Masters Mal Anderson 6-3 6-7 6-3 7-5
1971 SOUTHPORT C Mal Anderson Geoff Master 2-6 6-0 6-3 6-2
1970 TOOWOOMBA C Colin Dibley Bob Giltinan 6-3 7-6 6-4
1969 SYDNEY C Ray Ruffels Ina Fletcher 6-4 6-4 3-6 5-7 6-3
1968 SYDNEY C Phil Dent Bob Giltinan 6-2 6-4 12-10
1967 MELBOURNE C Tony Roche John Newcombe 5-7 7-5 6-2 6-2
1966 SYDNEY C Roy Emerson Tony Roche 6-3 8-6 4-6 6-3
1965 SYDNEY C John Newcombe Fred Stolle 4-6 6-1 6-1 6-3
1964 LAUNCESTON C Martin Mulligan Fred Stolle 6-3 6-4 8-6
1963 MELBOURNE C Neale Fraser Owen Davidson 6-2 6-2 6-4
1962 BRISBANE C Rod Laver Fred Stolle 6-2 2-6 6-4 4-6 8-6
1961 HOBART C Bob Hewitt Rod Laver 6-4 6-2 5-7 6-3
1960 HOBART C Martin Mulligan Bob Hewitt 6-1 6-2 4-6 6-4
1959 MELBOURNE C Neale Fraser Roy Emerson 6-2 3-6 12-10 6-3
1958 BRISBANE C Ashley Cooper Bob Mark 7-5 6-2 6-2
1957 MELBOURNE C Ashley Cooper Neale Fraser 6-2 4-6 6-3 6-3
1956 MELBOURNE C Ashley Cooper Mervyn Rose 7-5 6-4 9-11 6-4
1955 LAUNCESTON C Ken Rosewall Neale Fraser 6-3 5-7 6-4 2-6 6-1
1954 BRISBANE C Mervyn Rose Don Candy 7-5 6-4 6-2
1953 SYDNEY C Lew Hoad John Bromwich 7-5 6-3 2-6 9-7
1952 MELBOURNE C Lew Hoad Ken Rosewall 2-6 6-1 1-6 6-2 11-9
1951 LAUNCESTON C Frank Sedgman Don Candy 6-3 6-2 6-2
1950 TOOWOOMBA C Frank Sedgman George Worthington 6-1 6-0 6-4
1949 SYDNEY C Adrian Quist Geoff Brown 4-6 8-6 6-4 6-0
1948 SYDNEY C Adrian Quist Bill Sidwell 6-2 6-1 7-5
1947 TOOWOOMBA C Adrian Quist Frank Sedgman 6-3 6-2 6-3
1946 SYDNEY C Dinny Pails Geoff Brown 7-5 6-2 7-5
WW2 WW2 WW2 WW2
1940 HOBART C John Bromwich Jack Crawford 6-1 4-6 6-2 6-2
1939 TOOWOOMBA C Vivian McGrath James Gilchrist 3-6 7-5 7-5 6-0
1938 SYDNEY C Jack Crawford Vivian Mc Grath 2-6 3-6 6-2 6-2 6-4

Navops47 (talk) 05:28, 12 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

On 1988 and 1989 events, weren't they considered by both tournament names? If so they should be in both article lists but with a footnote denoting the fact that they overlap. Fyunck(click) (talk) 05:56, 12 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Hi the tennis base tournament roll stops in 1987 with the name Australian Hard Court Championships, I have no idea that the 1988 and 1989 were concurrently styled the South Australian Open and Australian Hard Court Championships if your sure about that its not a problem to add them but I would like a source confirming this.--Navops47 (talk) 10:16, 12 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The new article has been created Australian Hard Court Championships please also see my comments Talk:Australian Hard Court Championships regarding next stage and a few re-direct technical problems that need resolving as I cannot do them thanks.--Navops47 (talk) 11:34, 12 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Why does "South Australian Open" redirect here?

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The redirect of South Australian Open to here was created in 2009. After the above discussion, South Australian Championships was created in 2017, including comments that the SA Championships were known as "South Australian Open" from 1979 to 1989; while this article has no direct mention of the SA Open. So surely now South Australian Open should redirect to South Australian Championships? Adpete (talk) 09:07, 16 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Looks like an oversight after some page splits. I redirected it to South Australian Championships. Thanks. Fyunck(click) (talk) 09:26, 16 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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