Talk:Bring Us Together/GA1

GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

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Reviewer: Jappalang (talk) 02:37, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

GA review (see here for criteria)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):

   Some sentences do not seem right to me.

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

   Major aspects of this incident are covered, but some just seem to inspire more questions than normal.

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

6. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

   On hold till issues are resolved

Lede

• "The phrase "Bring Us Together" was used by the Democrats when Nixon proposed policies which they opposed, as they sought to remind Nixon of his pledge to bring the nation together."

  I find this an awkward phrase; I think it might be better to break it into two sentences.

Rally and sign

• What are "Nixonettes"?

  Girls, apparently, just told to cheer and provide atmosphere at a campaign rally. There's a couple of hundred refs to them on google books.--Wehwalt (talk) 03:52, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

  A brief descriptive clause of their role ("girls recruited to provide atmosphere for Nixon's campaigns" or such) would help. Jappalang (talk) 06:29, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

• "... provided with paper red, white, and blue dresses and signs."

  Paper dresses?

  Red white and blue paper dresses, sort of cheerleader style with longer skirt, probably, worn over the kid's normal clothing.--Wehwalt (talk) 03:52, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

  I think this bears a bit of elaboration; reading the current statement, I was thinking they wore only the paper dress (imagine if it rained...). Jappalang (talk) 06:29, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

  It was actually very windy that day according to the Blade article, which I imagine would not help matters any.--Wehwalt (talk) 15:44, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

• "... and the police dropped the rope holding the crowd back."

  Classic noun plus -ing issue (ambiguity): the police dropped the rope and thus held back the crowd?

• "As the crowd surged forward, Cole was bumped and pushed in the crowd, dropping her sign."

  I believe the second and third clause can be rephrased (into active phrase) to retain crowd as the main subject.

• "Instead of picking up her sign, Cole pushed forward to get close to the train, and as she neared the train, she saw another sign on the ground, face down. She picked it up and displayed it without even reading it."

  This is going to beggar the question: so who made this sign?

  No one knows. I have an article that the town did some investigating once Nixon did his thing, and they could not discover who made it or what happened to it. It is from the Toledo Blade, if it is any help.--Wehwalt (talk) 03:52, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

  If that is the case, I think we can use The Blade to say something like "The Blade later investigated this sign, but could find no clues to its origin or creator." Jappalang (talk) 06:29, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

• "... who suggested the sign, "Bring Us Together Again" was about boys, not politics."

  I fail to comprehend this: why was this phrase about boys?

  As in a boy and girl who had been bf/gf, and then separated, and thinking of getting back together. Jeez, the kids were 13, anything made them think of sex! In repressed rural Ohio, too.--Wehwalt (talk) 02:51, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

  That might be for them; I guess I am too innocent? In my early teens, lingerie catalogues were the closest thing we have to Playboy material and "Bring Us Together Again" would not have provoke such thoughts... Jappalang (talk) 06:29, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

Victory speech and Inauguration

• Should inauguration be capitalized in contravention of WP:MOSHEAD?

• "Nixon had used the phrase, ..."

  Should this not be "Nixon used the phrase," in the chronological scheme of things?

  • Boldly implemented by myself. Jappalang (talk) 22:16, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

• "Reporters and photographers descended on Deshler, about 45 miles from Toledo, and interviewed the girl in the principal's office."

  So how did they find out it was Cole? Did a friend reveal it to the press, or was it her own claim?

• The President-elect invited Reverend and Mrs. Cole and their family to attend the Inauguration. The family was brought to Washington by the Inaugural Committee. Vicki Cole carried a replica of her sign on one of the floats in the Inaugural parade.

  Could be rephrased; furthermore, was it a "replica" (exact recreation) if she threw it away and others may not have remembered it?

• "... because she carried the sign. or even because she made the sign, ..."

  Is that supposed to be a period in the quote?

• "... after he was fired from the Nixon Administration for differing from the White House over civil rights policy."

  What was the Presidential line and what stance did Panetta hold against this?

Political fallout

• "Safire, in his political dictionary also published in 2008, implies that the sign carried by Cole may never have existed."

  With what did he back up this opinion?

Image

• File:Bring Us Together.jpg

  Any online link, or library index/catalogue number for reference? Does it need to take up the entire screen?

Putting the GA on hold till the above are addressed. Jappalang (talk) 02:37, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

I will work on this mostly tomorrow, I expect. Regarding the image, it was not available online, the Nixon staff went to some trouble to find it for me, and I've sent in an OTRS request to confirm the template based on email confirmation that I've gotten from the library. As that is not a "permission", I have not put a OTRS pending tag. I am afraid that if you shrink it, you lose the legibility of "Bring Us Together Again". I am open to ideas there. I've been unable to devise a good crop. I think it is important to show the girl, show the sign, and show Nixon.--Wehwalt (talk) 02:51, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

I suspect what you might be looking for is commons:Commons:Village pump/Archive/2010Aug#Clipping images on Wiki is possible.2C_but.E2.80.A6_2, where Incnis Mrs clipped an image to achive something like commons:User:Incnis Mrsi/clip. However... is it not strange that Cole's sign is the only one facing away from Nixon? Jappalang (talk) 06:29, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

I'm guessing that sign is two-sided.--Wehwalt (talk) 06:45, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

I uploaded a cropped version of that here. As you can see, without the context of the float and the reviewing stand, it loses a lot of context. I suggest this may be a time to IAR.--Wehwalt (talk) 14:51, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

I think I've got everything, subject to comments made. Let me know what you think.--Wehwalt (talk) 16:02, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

That resolves quite a bit, but I think the "Nixonette" and the paper dresses do need a bit of elaboration (the phrase about boys bit can be left alone). Furthermore, the image does need something to verify it is public domain; perhaps ask an OTRS member (Stifle or David Fuchs) to verify the request? Is {{OTRS pending}} truly not appropriate here? Jappalang (talk) 22:16, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

I have now elaborates on them (the dress looks like an over the shoulder jumper dress, she wears it in the photo in the TImes article, but I realize that is not visible). I have asked Elcobbola to expedite the image and add the template, and in the meantime have added the OTRS pending template. Did you see if the two "Nixonettes" and "paper dresses" were OK?--Wehwalt (talk) 23:47, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

No problem; all issues resolved, passing this as GA. Jappalang (talk) 01:18, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.