Talk:Brien Taylor

Brien Taylor has been listed as one of the Sports and recreation good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Review: April 26, 2014. (Reviewed version).

This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.

If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page.

Biography: Sports and Games

	Biography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
	Sports portal This article is supported by the sports and games work group (assessed as Low-importance).

Baseball: Yankees Mid‑importance

	Baseball portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Baseball, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of baseball on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.BaseballWikipedia:WikiProject BaseballTemplate:WikiProject BaseballBaseball articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by WikiProject New York Yankees (assessed as Mid-importance).

United States: North Carolina Low‑importance

	United States portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject United States, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of topics relating to the United States of America on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the ongoing discussions. Template Usage Articles Requested! Become a Member Project Talk Alerts United StatesWikipedia:WikiProject United StatesTemplate:WikiProject United StatesUnited States articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
	North Carolina portal This article is supported by WikiProject North Carolina (assessed as Low-importance).

It is requested that an image or photograph of Brien Taylor be included in this article to improve its quality. Please replace this template with a more specific media request template where possible.
The Free Image Search Tool or Openverse Creative Commons Search may be able to locate suitable images on Flickr and other web sites.

Upload

60 Minutes

Seems I remember that he was profiled on 60 minutes before his career took a downturn. That would be somewhat interesting to pursue if correct.— Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:{{{1}}}|{{{1}}}]] ([[User talk:{{{1}}}#top|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/{{{1}}}|contribs]])

"After baseball" section significantly redacted

This section was quite a bit too rich in light of WP:BLP. We have way too much about about the person's activities and issues after his baseball career was over. What people do after they retire from the activities for which they are notable is peripheral. Sometime it's OK to include details about their family, hobbies, or whatever later in life, but its not important either, and it's OK to not include them, and let's not Herostratus (talk) 02:30, 11 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Herostratus, no, his [redacted] is a big part of his biography, and has been written about extensively. Removing it renders the biography incomplete. – Muboshgu (talk) 02:59, 11 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

You have to include refs for any allegations, even here (WP:BLP opens with "Editors must take particular care when adding information about living persons to any Wikipedia page" [emphasis in original] and later says "BLP applies to all material about living persons anywhere on Wikipedia, including talk pages, edit summaries, user pages, images, categories, lists, article titles and drafts."). On that ground I edited your comment, you can restore if you add a ref here ("It was in all the papers" is not a ref).

On the merits: so what if it was written about extensively? WP:BLP expressly prohibits dumping on people even if you happen to feel like and can dig up refs.

Editors must take particular care when adding information about living persons to any Wikipedia page. Such material requires a high degree of sensitivity... Biographies of living persons ("BLPs") must be written conservatively and with regard for the subject's privacy. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a tabloid: it is not Wikipedia's job to be sensationalist, or to be the primary vehicle for the spread of titillating claims about people's lives; the possibility of harm to living subjects must always be considered when exercising editorial judgment... Avoid repeating gossip. Ask yourself whether... even if true, it is relevant to a disinterested article about the subject... Many Wikipedia articles contain material on people who are not well known, even if they are notable enough for their own article. In such cases, exercise restraint and include only material relevant to the person's notability [emphasis added]... Material that may adversely affect a person's reputation should be treated with special care

Whether not having this material renders his biography "incomplete" is a matter of opinion, since what a complete biography should include is a matter of opinion. Maybe his biography is "incomplete" if we don't include his hat size and fifth grade detention record, but since all that is a matter of opinion, let's have the presumption be in favor of not following this person around for the rest of his life and making him miserable, hmmh?

Leave the poor guy alone for goodness' sake. He's just a little guy, a private citizen. You're a great big website, your page comes up first in a google of his name, and will long persist, and so you largely define how how the world sees him. How would you like it? What'd he ever do to you?

On the basis of presumption of privacy I've restored my redaction. Ball's in your court. If you want to take it to the BLP Board, I'd prefer the material stay out until a decision is made. Herostratus (talk) 17:30, 11 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Herostratus, you are badly misunderstanding the "presumption in favor of privacy". You're now redacting the fact that Taylor has a criminal record from my comment? In what way is that a BLP violation? BLP says "In the case of public figures, there will be a multitude of reliable published sources, and BLPs should simply document what these sources say." That's what is happening on this page. A multitude of sources cover his criminal history and they are documented with what they say. It is highly relevant to his notability. Please self-revert. This is silly. – Muboshgu (talk) 17:39, 11 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Buidhe, please have a look and comment. – Muboshgu (talk) 17:40, 11 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I completely agree with Muboshgu. At this point, his [redacted] behavior has garnered enough media attention that arguably it is part of his "notability". I think what the BLP is trying to avoid is not secondary coverage like we have here, but digging up PRIMARY court filings and such which do not contribute to notability. b uidhe 17:44, 11 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with Muboshgu as well; this is relevant, well-sourced, not sensationally-written, and it's not something incredibly minor like a traffic ticket. NorthBySouthBaranof (talk) 18:10, 11 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Addendum: I think the "misdemeanor child abuse" thing can be left out; it doesn't have multiple sources, isn't a felony, and is lacking followup (was he convicted? charges dropped? we don't know). NorthBySouthBaranof (talk) 18:25, 11 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

NorthBySouthBaranof, I'll have to check into that one. I'm not remembering off the top of my head. – Muboshgu (talk) 18:51, 11 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I agree this was an improper redaction given Taylor is a public figure per WP:BLPPUBLIC and his troubles are covered by prominent reliable sources like the New York Times. Morbidthoughts (talk) 01:29, 12 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Another edit dispute

Would others like to weigh in on this reversion? Taking out a huge chunk of the article for seemingly no reason is utterly ridiculous. Outside of maybe a sentence or two I don't see any reason for this wholesale removal. Wizardman 15:01, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Wizardman, it all seems relevant to me, though I agree we could probably trim a sentence here and there. Particularly the detail on the signing bonus demands. This article doesn't make it clear, but Van Poppel and Taylor were the start of the trend of top picks getting huge bonuses. – Muboshgu (talk) 15:37, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]