Talk:Bradley Winslow

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Bruxton (talk) 15:40, 9 August 2023 (UTC)

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Bradley Winslow

• ... that Bradley Winslow (pictured) was brevetted by US president Abraham Lincoln for "brave and gallant conduct" during the Siege of Petersburg? Source: https://nyshistoricnewspapers.org/lccn/sn84035541/1915-01-04/ed-1/seq-9/
  • ALT1: ... that Bradley Winslow (pictured), a colonel during the American Civil War, had roots in english pilgrimage? Source: https://archive.org/details/genealogicalfami01oake/page/296/mode/2up
  • Reviewed:

5x expanded by Lallint (talk). Self-nominated at 17:49, 3 August 2023 (UTC). Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be logged at Template talk:Did you know nominations/Bradley Winslow; consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page.

• article is appropriately expanded, long enough and within policy. The hook looks good. QPQ still outstanding. Photo looks good for use. Please ping me when QPQ is done. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 19:08, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
  • @Gonzo fan2007: I haven't nominated five or more articles, QPQ isn't needed (I think) Lallint 20:52, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
    • , you're right! This is good to go then. One recommendation on ALT0, which I prefer, is to add "Colonel" in front of his name. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 21:09, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
      • @Gonzo fan2007: Do you think "American civil war colonel" before his name would be better since it specifies the war, or would that make the hook too long? Lallint 21:13, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
• ALT2 ... that Colonel Bradley Winslow (pictured) was brevetted by US president Abraham Lincoln for "brave and gallant conduct" during the Siege of Petersburg in the American Civil War? « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 21:32, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
  • @Gonzo fan2007: That's good too. I'm not very familiar with the DYK process, do I just wait now for it to be accepted or for more comments to be made? Lallint 22:08, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

for ALT2. Nope, you're good. Just wait for the nom to be moved and placed into a holding area. Good work! « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 22:28, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

@Lallint and Gonzo fan2007: I am having trouble confirming ALT2 in the sources. Do you have a clear and easy to find reference for Winslow being breveted for "brave and gallant conduct"? I studied the newsprint and could not find it. Bruxton (talk) 15:06, 9 August 2023 (UTC)

@Bruxton: [1] at the bottom of "GEN WINSLOW PASSES AWAY". I've added the cite to the article. S.G. Griffins letter also states that he nominated him for "bravery and gallant conduct" at [2]. Lallint 15:20, 9 August 2023 (UTC)

The original source says "gallant and meritorious conduct". « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 15:21, 9 August 2023 (UTC)

@Gonzo fan2007 and Bruxton: Thats strange, this article states it was for brave and meritorious conduct, while the very same source later states it was for brave and gallant conduct. Does that nullify the hook? Most sources state it was gallantry, though. That one source is the only one I've seen say it was for meritorious conduct.

(edit conflict) @Lallint and Gonzo fan2007: Now I see it. It was quite blurred in the newsprint under the heading Bar association adopts resolutions. I will trascribe the reference here for the administrator who promotes to queue: "Took part in storming St. Petersburg... seriously wounded... President of the United states with the consent of Congress conferred upon him the honor of ______? brigadier general for gallant and meritorious conduct in the assault before Petersburg, VA on april 2, 1865. Bruxton (talk) 15:36, 9 August 2023 (UTC)

I think we also have a borderline WP:SEAOFBLUE but I will promote and leave that to the hook gnomes. Bruxton (talk) 15:39, 9 August 2023 (UTC)

GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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This review is transcluded from Talk:Bradley Winslow/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Hog Farm (talk · contribs) 19:32, 17 December 2023 (UTC)

I'll take a look at this over the coming week. Hog Farm _Talk 19:32, 17 December 2023 (UTC)

I ran a quick check on Wikipedia Library JSTOR and Project MUSE and I'm not seeing any obvious major coverage of Winslow that is being excluded.

• Warner needs page number(s) specified
• "In 1851 and 1852, he studied at Falley Seminary" - this isn't right. Oakes has him studying at Falley in 1850 and 1851 and Durant & Pierce has him at Falley the winter of '50-51 and then at home until 1852
• " On December 1, 1847, Winslow began attending Cazenovia College" - source indicates this is an approximate date, not an exact one
• "Winslow began to study law in the office of James F. Starbuck in autumn of 1853." - Oakes p. 295 does not give this date, and I'm not seeing anything related to this on Emerson p. 165. Do you possibly mean to cite Durant & Pierce p. 202?
• "In 1859, Winslow was nominated to be district attorney of Jefferson County, New York, and was elected on January 1, 1861" - he was elected in 1859, not nominated, per Durant & Pierce and Haddock. The 1/1 date is when he took office. Durant & Pierce have 1861 but I think this is an error based on them next saying he served until 1861. Haddock has 1/1/1860 and Matthews also has 1860.
• I'd move the info about his mom dying and him moving in with an uncle up to the early life section, as they seem relevant there.

Stopping here for now; I'll let you respond to these and then I'll continue the review. Hog Farm _Talk 02:20, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

@Hog Farm The source cited does say that his mother died when he was 14, but this source says she died in 1843, which would've placed bradley at 12 years old at the time of her death. The book is a more reliable source than the site, though, so I'm not quite sure what to do. I've completed all of the changes and moved the moms death to the early life section for now. Lallint 19:46, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

The Genweb source is not RS; I'd go with what the book says or simply say that this happened in his adolscence or something vaguer like that if you suspect strongly that the book is wrong

• "and volunteered to become a First lieutenant in the Black River Corps, a Union Army military organization in Watertown, on May 13, 1861" - source is two pages from Durant & Pierce and I'm not seeing where the rank of 1st Lt. on 5/13/1861 is. Oakes has the 1st Lt. but not the 5/13/1861. The wording in Durant & Pierce also seems to indicate that this unit was in existence before the war started, and then mostly volunteered for US service after Sumter. It would then be better to describe the pre-Sumter Black River Corps as a prewar militia unit of the type that was very common across the country at that time.
• " On October 26, 1861, Winslow and his regiment captured Lieutenant H. J. Siegal's Cavalry near Falls Church, Virginia" - cited to Durant & Pierce p. 68 but p. 68 of that work is devoted to discussing county formation and various plat boundaries. Durant & Pierce p. 203 of has some of the details of this but some disagreement. The event is only stated to have occurred in October, with an illustration published on October 26. It would have occurred earlier in the month to get into Leslie's on Oct. 26. The source is also clear that only Lt. Siegal himself was captured, not all of this cavalry.
• "Winslow was promoted to lieutenant colonel on August 31, 1861" - cited to Emerson 1898, p. 168 which doesn't support this - it only mentions that Winslow was DA on that page.
• A more minor issue, but the cited source does not give the dates for Cedar Mountain or Rappahannock Station
• "and he resigned from the Union Army on December 18, 1862" - sourced to the obituary and Durant & Pierce but neither provides the exact date of 12/18/1862.
• "Winslow's ancestors were English pioneers. One such ancestor was Kenelm Winslow, a pilgrim who traveled to Plymouth, Massachusetts, in 1629" - I think you want Oakes p. 295, not Oakes p. 297

Ready for the Fort Mahone part now. Will resume once these are addressed. Hog Farm _Talk 03:31, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

@Hog Farm I've made the changes, I chose to remove the part about Siegals capture since it doesn't seem to be a very notable event. Lallint 21:00, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

Lallint - would you be able to check the rest of the article to make sure the page numbers are correct? This will make the rest of the review much easier. Hog Farm _Talk 21:10, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

@Hog Farm Done Lallint 02:43, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

• Some of the background sourced to Beals 1898 was sourced to a different chapter in the book by Brevet Major Melcher; I've just swapped in another citation to avoid trying to sort out the mess of creating a new citation for Melcher because that part wasn't by Beals
• "His plan was to have all of his regiments attack Battery 28, a fort between Fort Heaven and Fort Mahone, and eventually one of the regiments would breach the fort" - this appears to be accurate but the source doesn't mention Fort Heaven
• "At 4:30 a.m., the attack started. The front regiments were all shot, until the 186th regiment was the last regiment remaining. The 186th New York Regiment quickly captured Battery 28. The Confederate Army still maintained a secondary line, and still had Fort Mahone captured, and they shot at Winslow and his regiment" - this needs work. For one, this isn't all on the cited page of Beals. Second, "the front regiments were all shot" doesn't really work - you can say they were repulsed or whatever language like that is accurate (I'm not very familiar with Petersburg at all). And I just don't think this one writing from memory as a participant is great as a source for this kind of material. Due to the nature of Civil War combat, a soldier in one of the attacking regiments would most likely have had little knowledge of what all was going on with the rest of Griffin's regiments. And lastly, the phrasing "and still had Fort Mahone captured" is a little weird - the Confederates wouldn't have had to capture Fort Mahone because they built it. Maybe use "held" or "occupied" instead of "captured". We really just need another source here, but the only two I have discussing Petersburg (Rhea's On to Petersburg and a rained-on copy of Sommers' Richmond Redeemed that I got for free) only discuss the 1864 events in the siege. Maybe try your local public library if you're in the US?
• "Winslow was shot below between his lower left ribs by a Minié ball, which passed through his body and came out on the right side near his spine" - Durant & Pierce have the bullet striking him on the right side between the ribs and then exiting left of the spine (ouch), which is the opposite of what our article has
• In the Griffin quote, I would recommend using [...] to indicate the portion of the letter not quoted in the source, based on where the source has the ... ... after "in front of Petersburg, April 2, 1865"
• "On October 25, 1865, Winslow was elected district attorney of Jefferson County again until 1868" - I'd drop the exact October 25 date here. It isn't clear from the nominations source that this is actually the election date, and since the 1868 New York state election and the 1868 United States presidential election in New York both took place on Nov. 3, I don't think that the October 25 date is the actual election date anyway
• "(now the 21st district)" - I would drop this statement; the correlations between 1908 congressional districts and modern ones aren't very close
• "In December 1912, Luther Wright Mott wrote a private bill officially retiring Winslow. Winslow was paid $3,000 a year, equivalent to $66,168 in 2022" - do we know for sure if this was finalized or not? The source indicates that this bill was introduced, but it still would have needed to be approved

I'll tackle the lead/infobox and personal life section once these are resolved, but it may be after Christmas when I can finish this. Hog Farm _Talk 17:30, 21 December 2023 (UTC)

This opinionator blog from the New York Times gets into specifics about the battle but it doesn't have inline citations so I'll have to check through all the sources and see which ones fit which claims. Lallint 18:55, 22 December 2023 (UTC)

@Lallint: - are you ready for me to look back over this? Hog Farm _Talk 18:53, 29 December 2023 (UTC)

Yeah Lallint 07:12, 30 December 2023 (UTC)

It'll likely be a few days before I can get to this. For now, you can work on alphabetizing the sources. Do we also know that Matthews is both the author and the publisher for Matthew 1898? I'm seeing where G. E. Matthews is the publisher, but not anything in the title/copyright information that indicates that Matthews also wrote the work. Hog Farm _Talk 15:51, 30 December 2023 (UTC)

Does alphabetizing sources mean to arrange them in alphabetical order? Also this google books page says he was the author but not the publisher, but that's probably because it's a re-release of some kind. I'll just put him as both publisher and author. Lallint 20:44, 30 December 2023 (UTC)

Yes, it is standard practice to alphabetize a list of long citations for sources like in your "sources" section by authors' last name. As to Matthews, Worldcat, who is somewhat better than Google books for publishing info, has the publisher also as the author. This would not have been unusual for the time; I would just leave the publisher and exclude the author since the source itself doesn't provide an author and it could well have been written by several people at the publishing place. I'm okay with the source as reliable enough for GA status based on the fact that I'm seeing evidence of other reliable sources citing it, but listing Matthews also as the author makes it look like a WP:SPS situation and will probably resulting in somebody drive-by tagging the article in the future. Since there's no strong evidence that Matthews wrote the book himself, I'd just leave the author of. Let me know if you need help getting the sfn to work without an author's last name parameter. Hog Farm _Talk 20:29, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

I've alphabetized the Sources section and removed Matthews as the author Lallint 14:17, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

• "In December 1912, Luther Wright Mott wrote a private bill officially retiring Winslow. Winslow was paid $3,000 a year, equivalent to $66,168 in 2022." - this still needs tweaked; as written it implies that this did occur, but the source we have indicates that the bill was only proposed; it would still have needed to be passed for Winslow to be officially retired and for him to be paid the $3,000 a year
• "At ≈4:00 a.m., the attack started. The front regiments all retreated, until the 186th regiment was the last regiment remaining. The 186th New York Regiment quickly captured Battery 28." - cited to Haddock p. 79. The majority of this information appears to be on Haddock p. 71 but I'm not seeing where the 4am time in the source is but I may be just missing where it is
• For File:Bradley Winslow as Brigadier General of U.S. Volunteers, circa 1865.jpg, remove the tag indicating that it is the work of an official US Army employee. I'm not seeing anything that supports that and most old photographs of Civil War soldiers were made by private companies.
• "Winslow re-married to Poppie H. Burdick on January 22, 1901, in Cook County, Illinois" - not seeing where the Cook County, Illinois is in the source
• " Geraldine died on August 24, 1896, after accidentally being thrown out of a carriage" - the newspaper supports the year and the cause of death, but the other source is Emerson p. 166. That page of Emerson only consists of a list of names of members of the Assembly
• "Winslow was buried at Brookside Cemetery in Watertown, New York." - Not seeing this in the source; but again I might be looking in the wrong place
• For the rank in the infobox above his picture, I'd specificy Brevet Brigadier General, not just General, as General is a formal four-star rank today

This is getting much closer to GA status; almost done. Hog Farm _Talk 16:49, 6 January 2024 (UTC)

For Geraldines death source, there are two page 166's. The one I cited was this one, but I don't know how to differentiate the two when citing. For the burial location I cited NYGenWeb which is usually a tertiary source but in this case is the only source online of burial records for that particular cemetery, and was prepared specifically for that website by the cemetery owners, so it seems fine. Other than that I've made the changes. Lallint 22:22, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

I've made some small changes. I think this is good enough to pass for GA now. Hog Farm _Talk 03:50, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.