Talk:Botch (professional wrestling)

Botch

Do we need this article? I know there's a list of "memorable" botches, but that's POV. The word botch has the exact same meaning in everyday context as it does in professional wrestling and besides, Wikipedia is not a dictionary. I'll redirect it to the article on professional wrestling slang. --Jtalledo (talk) 05:09, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

You completely miss the point - you are correct, it is not a dictionary - but the article explains how "botch" fits into the context of wrestling, not a general definition of botch. My feeling is that having some examples of wrestling botches is helpful, and enough to justify have an explanatory article about what happens and that a wrestling botch can be fatal. Other than maybe a "botched" surgery, most botches in the general sense are not life-or-death. --CokeBear 10:21, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Edited the Owen Hart fall. He fell 78 feet as documented by the best source I could find. [1]

Botches

• This is a fun page but in the interests of keeping it encyclopedic, the list should really only contain memorable or significant botches. Just because you saw Cena miss a move on Raw the other day, doesn't necessarily make it a list-worthy botch. Wrestlers botch all the time, if it causes injury or major embarrassment then consider adding it to the list. I also encourage others to prune the list as aggressively as they see fit, nothing here is verified so Jimbo's "aggressive removal of unverified information" edict should override any objections. Deizio talk 13:47, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Agreed, this is turning into a near-weekly update page just because slight errors are almost guaranteed to happen every show. Stuff like the Gayda/Stratus bulldog and the Owen Hart piledriver are famous examples, but look at the stuff from Summerslam '06 that is listed...no one even remembers that now, and it's only a few weeks later. KaneRobot 22:51, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

Why is the Triple H/Mr Mcmahon 'botch' on there. It is just a minor mistake in the match which should not be up there. I agree with the people above in that only famous botches should be on there.60.227.99.12 06:45, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

Now I agree with most of the rulings on significant botches, because it defenintly helps clean up the article, but I DO think that we need one botch not on the list to be in there. I think the Big Show-Sabu match at SSLAM 06 should be listed with the biggest one from the match, because that is what many people seem to remember the most from that event (though given it was a somewhat lackluster event) and SummerSlam is generally thought of as the 2nd biggest PPV of the year. - JSelby posted this at 17:11, 7 October 2006 (EST)

Okay, here's a few botches that I'd like to consult wether are they or not worthy of being in the page (since there's lots of guys that enjoy randomly deleting stuff and I do not intend to add this stuff if it's up for deletion) I'm talking about Kane botching a Flying Clothesline to RVD in Summerslam 03, Kurt Angle breaking Bob Holly's arm with a Moonsault, Goldberg spearing the ring post face first, Brock Lesnar powerbombing Holly on his neck, Lesnar giving A-Train the F-5 on his head AND, The Shockmaster!!! LOL. So what you guys think? (If you are unaware of these botches I assure they're memorable, so I'll wait a couple of days for an answer before editing the article)Vicius 06:55, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

!?!?!?!?

Why is the list of botches shorter!?!? Torax2 04:21, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

a better question would be why do they delete legitimate botches? Trish was deleted (even though it was a legit botch and fell into the context of the meaning at the top) as was the Owen hart fall (unless we are to belive him dying was scripted).

I'm just fallowing the definition, so either change the definition or quit deleting legitimate botches. –—Traiklin 16:02, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

Deleted list of botches

I deleted the list of botches. First off, there's no established criteria for what a "notable" botch is so it might be POV. Second, the list is largely uncited and unverified. Third, Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information. Also, according Wikipedia:Embedded lists, lists make Wikipedia worse, not better. --Jtalledo (talk) 20:49, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

Instead of the list, an example of a single botch illustrating a certain point like the one with D'Lo Brown talking about botches that could cause injury would be a good idea, if it's cited. --Jtalledo (talk) 20:51, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

Notable botches

• WCW wrestler Erik Watts attempted to perform a dropkick on Steve Williams during a tag team match that was part of the Battlebowl tournament at Starrcade 1992. Instead, Watts ended up landing on his stomach, much like a belly flop.
• Kevin Nash performed his trademark Jacknife Powerbomb on The Giant, but could not perform the move properly due to the Giant's recent weight gain (and the fact that Nash was physically weaker after recovering from a knee injury), and dropped him on his neck.
• Similarly, Nash attempted to perform the same maneuver to Shawn Michaels at WrestleMania XI, but he over-rotated Michaels, causing him to land on his feet instead of his back, where he quickly buckled to the mat to sell the move.
• Japanese wrestler Hayabusa botched a springboard moonsault in a match against Mammoth Sasaki when his foot slipped on the second rope and he landed on his head, severely injuring his neck and paralyzing him. He is now able to walk again after several years.
• Sabu botched a flapjack by Chris Benoit. The move was botched when Sabu attempted to change the move from a flapjack, which has the opponent land face-first, to a back body drop, which requires that the opponent somersault and land on his back. Sabu misjudged the height and time which he had in the air and attempted to flip himself over onto his back, but did not get enough rotation and landed almost vertically on the side of his head which broke his neck.
• On May 28, 2001, Brian Ong volunteered to receive a flapjack while training with Dalip Singh. When it came time for Ong to receive the move he grabbed Singh's shirt instead of pushing off his back as his trainers had suggested, and landed on his head. The resulting impact, coupled with a previous concussion, killed Ong.
• Triple H performed his finishing move, the Pedigree, on jobber Marty Garner, also known as Cham Pain. Garner thought Triple H was attempting a double underhook suplex and assisted him by jumping. Triple H dropped him on his head almost vertically, making the move into a more dangerous version of a double underhook piledriver.
• Brock Lesnar botched a shooting star press and landed on his head during the main event of WrestleMania XIX against Kurt Angle for the WWE Championship. He had performed the move many times while wrestling in OVW. In this case, the move was the planned finish of the event. Angle realized what was wrong and had to improvise the finish to the match. After Lesnar botched the move, Angle went for the cover, but Lesnar kicked out. Angle managed to get Brock to pin him after a third F-5.
• Sid Vicious botched a big boot off the second turnbuckle when he landed incorrectly and broke his leg during a four corners match during WCW Sin.
• Sabu botched a moonsault off the ropes to the outside, to connect with a table leaned up against the guardrail that Shane Douglas was set up against. It is assumed that Douglas was to move away at the last second, and Sabu would go through the table, however on viewing it cannot be certain what they were attempting. Douglas did indeed move at the last second, but Sabu merely hit the table, which didn't break, and he fell onto his head on the concrete, knocking him unconscious. Douglas had to go back into the ring and pose to the crowd until Sabu's condition could be properly determined. He didn't regain consciousness and after a few minutes, the match was called off.
• Owen Hart performed a sitdown reverse piledriver on Steve Austin. Owen executed the sitdown improperly and broke Austin's neck. This was the turning point of Austin's career: the continuing pain from this injury eventually led to his current semi-retirement.
• Marty Jannetty, who was then one half of the tag team The Rockers, botched a Rocker Dropper on Charles Austin in December 1990 in a WWF dark match. Austin was to face-plant, but instead tried to roll forward. As a result, he landed straight on his head, breaking his neck. In 1994, a Florida jury awarded Austin $26.7 million in damages.
• Jimmy Hart blasted referee Jim Korderas too hard with his megaphone during a match between Brutus Beefcake and The Honky Tonk Man at '[WrestleMania IV]], legitimately knocking him out. Korderas was to eventually awaken and disqualify Honky Tonk Man, but as a result of the botch, Earl Hebner, Joey Marella and Jack Kruger had to rush into the ring, where Hebner awarded the match to Beefcake, while Marella and Kruger physically assisted Korderas out of the ring.
• Jackie Gayda, winner of the Tough Enough 2 competition, in one of her first TV matches (a tag team match with Christopher Nowinski against Trish Stratus and Bradshaw on the July 8, 2002 edition of [[WWE Raw|RAW]' from Philadelphia, Pennsylvania), botched nearly every move that she tried, the most famous of which was a second-rope-bulldog by Trish, which Jackie sold two seconds too late. Jackie was sent to OVW to get in-ring training, but when she returned on WWE television, she took mostly ringside roles.
• During the World Heavyweight Championship match at the 2003 Royal Rumble, Scott Steiner (due to fatigue) botched a double underhook powerbomb on Triple H, and fell down on the mat, nearly dropping Triple H on his head. This botch has since been nicknamed Stumble Bomb '03 by the smark community in reference to the Tiger Driver '91 which unlike the botch is a move that is done in the same way but on purpose.
• During the 2001 King of the Ring, Shane McMahon fought Kurt Angle in a Street Fight match. During the match, a planned spot called for Kurt to give a belly-to-belly suplex to Shane in front of the glass window of the King of the Ring set. On his first attempt, Shane did not break the glass as expected. He also was dropped nearly vertically on his head, resulting in Kurt waiting a minute for Shane to regain his bearings. On the second attempt, Shane successfully broke the glass as planned. However, Kurt was to suplex Shane again from the inside of the set to the outside (through another glass window set). After 2 failed attempts that saw Shane dropped almost vertically on his head again, Kurt improvised by throwing Shane through the glass window, rather than attempting anymore belly-to-belly suplexes and risking seriously injuring Shane. Despite landing on his head, Shane was able to finish the match as planned, and suffered no lasting effects from the match.
• At SuperBrawl Revenge, during a six-man tag, Yun Yang botched several spots in a row on Evan Karagious. First, Yang attempted a spin kick, but missed completely, and improvised with a punch to Evan's back. Yang then hooked Evan for a Russian Leg Sweep, but Evan fell too early, and Yang had to fall back after him, making the move look horribly botched. Yang immediately attempted a springboard move, but he slipped on the middle rope and merely twisted around and fell down onto his face as the crowd laughed. Yang finally picked Evan back up, and went for a reverse tombstone, but Evan's head landed nowhere even near the ground.
• In the main event of Starrcade 1999 (a WCW World Title match between champion Bret Hart and challenger Goldberg), Goldberg nailed Hart with a superkick to the head. Hart suffered a concussion as a result of the kick, forcing him to retire from pro wrestling. He believes that the concussion was a causal factor in his 2002 stroke.
• At Survivor Series 2002, during the opening match between Jeff Hardy, Bubba Ray Dudley and Spike Dudley vs. Rosey, Jamal and Rico, the match was briefly exposed. Rico had climbed the turnbuckle and the plan was to have him be shoved off by Jeff Hardy. Hardy completely missed his cue (he was too busy brawling outside), causing a frustrated Rico to shout "Come on Jeff, goddamnit!"
• During the WWE Women's Championship match at WrestleMania 22 between Trish Stratus and Mickie James, the plan was to have James win the Women's Championship by stealing Stratus' finisher (the Stratusfaction). However, as James attempted the move, her feet slipped on the ropes, causing Stratus to fall to the mat and James landing right on top of her. Disappointment was clearly seen on both Stratus and James' faces, which resulted in James quickly having to nail Stratus with a Mick Kick for the rushed finish. The botch was later edited out of the WrestleMania 22 DVD.
• At No Mercy 2002, Chris Jericho went for a Springboard dropkick during a tag match between him and Christian and Booker T and Goldust. The turnbuckle literally snapped upon contact causing the ring ropes to collapse leading Jericho to hit a regular, top rope Moonsault as an improvised finish. The ring ropes had to be re-installed before the remainder of the event could continue.
• During the TNA World X-Cup 2004, Juventud Guerrera botched a Juvi Driver on Jerry Lynn. Instead of dropping Lynn on his back/shoulders, Guerrerra turned Lynn too far and dropped Lynn on his shoulder, tearing the tendon from the bone in his rotator cuff.
• At Summerslam 2000 Triple H attempted to Pedigree Kurt Angle on top of an announce table when the table collapsed and they both fell, Angle received a big cut on his forehead.
• At Cyber Sunday 2006, Mickie James went for a Springboard Tornado DDT, and when trying to hit the ropes, her feet slipped and she landed on top of Lita. This prompted J.R. to exclaim: "What the hell was that!"
• At Armageddon 2006 Jeff Hardy went for a "See-saw" type move by jumping into a ladder perched on top of another ladder hitting Joey Mercury's nose and under his left eye causing Mercury to get four fractures on the inside of his nose, 5 stitches on the inside and 15 stitches on the outside of his nose and cheek. It also caused his left eye to be swollen shut and continual internal bleeding from his nose and eye.” [2]
• At New Years Revolution 2007, Triple H attempted a spinebuster on Randy Orton. Triple H landed wrong, and tore his quadricep.

I like this page. Although I think from the paragraph that starts 'at wrestlemania 23...' should be deleted. Those last few paragraphs don't seem to have anything to do with the rest of the article at all.

Help Citing it

I wrote the paragraph on Sean Waltman's botch victory over Scott Hall, and someone is asking for citation. Can someone help me? I know this happened, because 1) I saw it live, and 2) The fact that it was not planned was broadcast all over the news at that time. I really have no other "citation" besides that, but I figured that was enough. Can anyone help me? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.184.236.13 (talk) 17:08, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

I've never heard anything about it being anything other than planned. You better find a source pretty quickly, or it will get deleted. PhoenixLink 19:33, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

I'm still not sold as to the purpose of this page. As said a year and a half ago, "botch" has the exact same meaning in real life as it does in wrestling. Somehow, thanks to articles like this, you have people throwing the word around like it's some unique smarky insider term. It's not. PeteF3 21:43, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Why

Why was the owen Hart fall listed as 90 foot? I changed it to 78 feet like it actually was....

List

There Should be a list of Many BotchesJoe ferst (talk) 02:47, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

Hell in a Cell 'botch'

This section reads like it is written by a fanboy mark. It is plainly obvious to anyone watching the video of the match that there entire match was worked, including Foley getting off the stretcher and even the falling roof panel. Unless you honestly believe The Undertaker chased out everyone who was giving him 'medical attention' to continue. Had that been legit, the match would have stopped right there. The fact that The Undertaker continues afterwards is the proof it was worked. Are there any legitimate outside references that prove this was legit? The 'Hell in a Cell' article on wiki also claims this to be 'real' without any references either. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.173.132.226 (talk) 07:26, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

He didn't land on the announce table the way he was intended to land, so the impact was much worse than intended. If you watch the video, he barely hits the table and lands more on the edge. From what it looks like, they were just going to call the match there since it still had the desired finish of Undertaker as the winner, but Foley changed his mind and continued it anyway. Also, his tooth and jaw were clearly unscripted, so even if the roof panel was supposed to happen, knocking a tooth out wasn't.174.125.118.62 (talk) 10:15, 25 April 2013 (UTC)

Pro Wrestling Botches And Fails

Check it out: http://www.prowrestlingbotchesandfails.wikia.com It's like a wikipedia of botches. If you can please help me and add stuff to it. I created it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.219.87.128 (talk) 12:48, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

1) A link to a blog promoting a YouTube channel. 2) It calls itself "Pro Wrestling" Botches and Fails, though the content is almostly entirely WWE-centered. Where's Jim Cornette selling Robert Gibson's dropkick that clearly didn't make any contact? Just asking if there's any objection to deleting this section as irrelevant to the scope of the talk page.RadioKAOS (talk) 15:16, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

Hey, now that I think of it, take that list above.RadioKAOS (talk) 15:18, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Blading (professional wrestling) which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 14:14, 2 October 2014 (UTC)

Botchamania / Botch discussion

I feel as though the Botchamania (Internet collaboration of infamous botches) series would be of benefit being mentioned on this page. It has been mentioned on quite a few different articles; and whilst probably not noteworthy in of itself a full article; this would be the most logical place for a mention of Botchamania. It would also help explain why the word 'botch' has become more mainstream.

I understand there may be complications regarding Botchamania being a highly pirated/copywright infringing show; however, the website itself (including blog posts, event reviews and such) do not have the same issue.

Botches in of themselves are very POV; except on those occasions where those involve refer to the incedent as a botch; or clear injuries are sustained which could never be argued was the 'goal' of the move/promo/spot. I would say most workers would agree that most if not all matches have 'botches' that are covered up; as it's impossible to be completely infaluable.

There are also no mention of referee botches. There have been many instances of referees botching entire matches, or finishes; with DQ finishes to planned pinfall matches, pinfalls with too many counts, or not counting the fall on clear finishes where the wrestler does not kick out (Think No Way Out 2001 with Earl Hepner).

Lee Vilenski (talk) 09:10, 10 October 2017 (UTC)