Talk:Born Villain

Born Villain has been listed as one of the Music good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Review: August 26, 2017. (Reviewed version).

Born Villain received a peer review by Wikipedia editors, which is now archived. It may contain ideas you can use to improve this article.

Albums

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Industrial Mid‑importance

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Mid

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Metal

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This article is written in American English, which has its own spelling conventions (color, defense, traveled) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus.

Curious...

I'm just curious if the current album cover (Manson with a large black hat) alludes to anything...it reminds me this poster: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/2c/Gallowwalker.jpg — Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.250.166.247 (talk) 22:25, 8 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The Holy Mountain (1973 film) --151.41.163.244 (talk) 15:17, 25 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Bot

I believe this bot is an error, because once i click the link, the only information in the supposed website is: 404: Not Found Sorry, but the content you requested could not be found. I'm deleting this message in the article. Salgado96 (talk) 22:23, 8 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

references

I am going to fix the refs here (since some of them are just bare urls) but, in the future, please learn how to use Wikipedia's cite templates. -Red marquis (talk) 10:30, 10 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Also, please stop citing Mansonwiki. Wikipedia does not consider it (or any fan-administered wiki) as an acceptable source!

Simple creed

A quote of the singer's father is given extra attention (discussed at DYK). I find the creed proclaimed there extremely simple and not relevant to the music. Or is the music that extremely simple? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:20, 19 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

LaBeouf and artwork

None of the three sources on the page directly support that LaBeouf will have any part in this album's artwork. I believe this could be a misinterpretation of the quote, "[we] talked about what kind of visuals he wanted on his album." As a director, LaBeouf would be interested to match the theme of the record with his "making-of" documentary. For example, if Manson's eight album is really dark, a director would want to know that so he could match that vibe in his video. Fezmar9 (talk) 17:00, 2 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Sources

album name

officially called "Born Villain", so change page name... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 14.200.66.155 (talk) 08:28, 2 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Ref # 31 IMPORTANT

We can't use youtube as a primary linked source. It doesn't matter if it is highly reliable. It needs to be reformatted to cite the interview itself, using the "cite interview" template. - User:Red_marquis — Preceding unsigned comment added by 210.5.121.190 (talk) 20:28, 23 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Then change it. Homeostasis07 (talk) 02:31, 24 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

You can't expect me to do everything. "You're not a shovel and I'm not your dirt", so to speak. You guys need to learn to clean up after yourselves and follow the rules/guidelines or Manson's articles will get nowhere. -Red marquis (talk) 12:26, 7 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Sales

Hits daily double have estimated Born Villians first week sales to be between 30 - 40k. Here is a link: http://www.hitsdailydouble.com/news/newsPage.cgi?news08961m01 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.224.33.43 (talk) 15:36, 3 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Commercial performance

Some sales info for the forthcoming commercial performance field:

Born Villain debuted at #14 in the U.K. with first week sales of 6,933, according to Music Week
Debuted at #18 on the main Oricon album chart in Japan, with first week sales of 5,825, while it dropped to #20 on its second week on the chart, with second week sales of 3,817 - which is actually his best second-week performance since The Golden Age of Grotesque in the country. Both EMDM and THEOL dropped out of the top 40 by its second week, so it's a pretty noteworthy stabilisation, I think.
Debuted at #10 on U.S. Billboard album chart with sales of over 39,000, according to Loudwire, I'd suggest using this as the permanent source - since the Billboard website is notoriously buggy. A direct link from Billboard in the source would probably be dead by the end of the month.

Homeostasis07 (talk) 01:23, 12 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Peer Review

A note to editors: I have listed this article for peer review so that we can find out what's wrong/flawed about this article. For future reference, please take heed the lessons/advice that will be listed in it so we can improve the article on its way to eventual GAC/FAC. Thanks for all your hard work, btw. -Red marquis (talk) 16:06, 5 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Born Villain/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Freikorp (talk · contribs) 03:04, 25 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Is it reasonably well written?
Lead

Do we really need to introduce Sablan as "Twiggy's Goon Moon collaborator"? I think it's just making the sentence mroe convulted than it has to be.
Removed.

"Produced by Vrenna and Manson, who was more involved" - Were they both more involved or just Manson?
Re-worded the whole paragraph to make this clearer.

"contains some of the heaviest material the band has recorded to date." - Consider WP:REALTIME. Perhaps say "at the time of its release, it contained some of the heaviest material the band had ever recorded"
Done.

"It received mixed reviews from" - Introduced after the information about 'You're So Vain' makes this statement appear to be related to that song at first. Suggest changing "It" to "The album".
Reworded.

Background and recording

"The band's vocalist" - suggest changing this to "The band's eponymous vocalist"
Done.

You need to introduce "the Triptych" better. Suggest changing "The tryptich" to "Manson's triptych of albums". Also wikilink "triptych" and I don't think it should be capitalised.
Done.

"one of which failed to appear in a television series about vampires." - Huh? More information needed.
I always presumed he was talking about True Blood, but that quote was the closest he ever got to mentioning it. Couldn't find anything more substantial, so removed.

"after the label recoups" - should this be "recouped"
Done.

Composition and style

"band has recorded to date." - Again, see WP:REALTIME.
Done.

Promotion and singles

"Rob Zombie ("Twins of Evil") and Alice Cooper ("Masters of Madness")" - Try and avoid putting anything if brackets if it can be avoided. I think it can be avoided here.
Changed to "two co-headlining tours: "Twins of Evil" with Rob Zombie and "Masters of Madness" with Alice Cooper."
Is it factually accurate and verifiable?
A. Has an appropriate reference section:
There are mixed date formats in the references. e.g. ref 32 reads "September 2, 2011" while ref 33 reads 2012-03-20.
Nice catch. Fixed.

I don't think sources like Vampirefreaks.com and JoBlo.com will survive an FAC nomination, just throwing that out there.
Yeah, I doubt this article could ever be substantial enough for FA. I know not every article can be FA, so the plan is to get every one of his album articles to GA-status, and then work the ones I think could potentially go beyond that to FA, and just leave the rest at GA. I think Born Villain is one of the latter, unfortunately—even though "Overneath the Path of Misery" and "The Flowers of Evil" are two of my favourite Manson songs ever.

B. Citation to reliable sources where necessary:
The first three sentences in "Release and artwork" appear to be un-referenced. Can you provide inline citations here at all?
Removed the last two of those sentences. The first is referenced by the citation at the end of the following sentence.

C. No original research:
Is it broad in its coverage?
A. Major aspects:
Can you give any indication of why Ginger Fish departed? Also more information on how and why Johnny Depp got involved would be appreciated. The brevity of these two mentions is likely to leave the reader wanting to know more.
Elaborated on both.

B. Focused:
Is it neutral?
Fair representation without bias:
Is it stable?
No edit wars, etc:
Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?
A. Images are tagged with their copyright status, and valid fair use rationales are provided for non-free content:

B. Images are provided if possible and are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions:
Overall:
Pass or Fail: Placing this one on hold. Take your time though. I don't mind leaving this open considerably longer than the standard seven days since I know you already have my other GA review to respond to. I'll wait till both these nominations are closed before reviewing your other nomination. Freikorp (talk) 13:59, 25 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Think I've done everything for both articles. Thanks for the reviews, Freikorp. Wasn't expecting anyone to come along and do these so quickly. Homeostasis07 (talk) 01:23, 26 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Looks great, happy to pass this now. Freikorp (talk) 06:00, 26 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Problem with 'Critical reception' section

This section gives one the impression it was written by a diehard fan; for an album with a generally mediocre reception (59/100 on Metacritic), it is biased a bit too much towards the positive reception it has received (also, I don't know if it's standard practice to include websites like Kill Hipsters which are not very well known, at least not so early on in the section). OddWarlord (talk) 09:21, 27 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The section is fairly split among positive and negative (two paragraphs each). It's not Wikipedia's problem if Metacritic were being lazy by only bothering to summarise 10 reviews: there were clearly a lot more reviews from major publications they could've included. Homeostasis07 (talk/contributions) 14:57, 27 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not so sure about the Kill Hipsters reference but just with regards to the layout and prose I have to agree with Homeostasis07: looks fairly well balanced to me with a NPOV. Rob van vee 17:28, 27 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah I'd agree with that. Might be a good idea to ditch Kill Hipsters, otherwise it looks fine to me. Damien Linnane (talk) 01:23, 28 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]