Talk:Bolor-Tagh
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Bolor/Balur
[edit]How is this different from Bolor? Bolor is mentioned in Tarikh-i-rashidi and Chinese sources. Aside from the statement "Bolor-Tagh lies entirely in the Xinjiang province of western China", which I think is false, I think the two might be the same concept. --Voidvector (talk) 04:44, 27 January 2020 (UTC)
- Not same. Balawaristan and Bolor-Tagh are two different concepts. Baloristan or Balawaristan is the historical name for current Gilgit-Baltistan region, that also included Ladakh and Chitral, where Bolor-Tagh is an ancient name for a mountain sub-range. --Kazmi1122 16:44, 13 December 2020 (UTC)
- Hi Voidvector, I remember asking you about these ranges somewhere, but I can't find it. In any case, my understanding is that Bolor-Tagh mountains are the range of mountains between the Tashkurghan valley and the Tarim basin. If so, it is good to have a page on them. Bolor-Tagh is obviously named after Bolor (disagreeing with Kazmi here), but nothing says it was inside Bolor. Hindu-tagh is not inside India for example. I also heard that the Tarikh-i-Rashidi (why is it "Rashidi"?) called the Kuen Lun mountains "Tibetan mountains" (don't know the exact original form). -- Kautilya3 (talk) 22:17, 13 December 2020 (UTC)
- I am also going to retarget Bolor to Baloristan, because they are the same thing. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 22:19, 13 December 2020 (UTC)
- I think both terms are just "Bolor" + "stan" (land of) or "Bolor" + "tagh" (mountain). My impression is that most of the usages for "Bolor" (Balor, Palola, etc) without the suffixes refer to pre-Tibetan/Islamic mountain states run by some local noble. --Voidvector (talk) 05:01, 14 December 2020 (UTC)
- Agreed. But my point is that Bolor-Tagh could mean mountains adjoining Bolor, rather than mountains in Bolor. So it doesn't help us fix the boundaries of Bolor. Somebody translated Fa-Hsien's travelogues,[1] which contain these two passages:
After stopping here for fifteen days, the party went south [?] for four days, and entering upon the Bolor-Tagh range, arrived at the country of Täsh-Kurghån, where they went into retreat.
From this point travelling westwards [?] towards northern India, the pilgrims after a journey of one month succeeded in crossing the Bolor-Tagh range. On these mountains there is snow in winter and summer alike. There are also venomous dragons, ... The people of that part are called men of the Snow Mountains. On passing this range the travelers were in northern India. Just at the frontier there is a small country, called Darél, where also there are many priests, all of the Lesser Vehicle.
- North of Tashkurghan and east of Darel? No compasses in those days, I suppose. I would guess they crossed into Tashkurgan from the Tarim basin and crossed the Karakoram range to enter Gilgit. Both of these were apparently "Bolor-Tagh". -- Kautilya3 (talk) 14:07, 14 December 2020 (UTC)
- Alexander Cunningham[2] interprets Bolor-Tagh ("Bolor mountains") as the Karakoram Range. He says Fa-Hsien entered Ladakh (Snow Mountain country) via the Karakoram Pass and then went west to Darel. The transverse range to the north is supposed to be Belut-Tagh (Cloudy Mountains) which people sometimes confuse as "Bolor-Tagh". -- Kautilya3 (talk) 22:11, 14 December 2020 (UTC)
- Agreed. But my point is that Bolor-Tagh could mean mountains adjoining Bolor, rather than mountains in Bolor. So it doesn't help us fix the boundaries of Bolor. Somebody translated Fa-Hsien's travelogues,[1] which contain these two passages:
- I think both terms are just "Bolor" + "stan" (land of) or "Bolor" + "tagh" (mountain). My impression is that most of the usages for "Bolor" (Balor, Palola, etc) without the suffixes refer to pre-Tibetan/Islamic mountain states run by some local noble. --Voidvector (talk) 05:01, 14 December 2020 (UTC)
References
- ^ Giles, H. A. (1923), The Travels of Fa-Hsien, Cambridge Unviersity Press – via archive.org
- ^ Cunningham, Alexander (1854), Ladak: Physical, Statistical, Historical, London: Wm. H. Allen and Co – via archive.org
Proposed merge
[edit]See Talk:Baloristan#merging Bolor-Tagh & Baloristan. – wbm1058 (talk) 16:18, 26 December 2020 (UTC)