Talk:Boeing 720/Archive 1

This is an archive of past discussions about Boeing 720. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Archive 1

Online sources

"Boeing 720". Airliners.net. (An online version of the 720 entry in The International Directory of Civil Aircraft, 2003/2004. ISBN 1-875671-58-7.)

Move to mainspace soon?

I think this article is getting ready to move to mainspace. What do you think? -Fnlayson (talk) 16:24, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

Agree. MilborneOne (talk) 17:07, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

I too agree. —Compdude123 (talk) 20:59, 16 July 2011 (UTC)

A little more work is needed, though. There are several places in this article that need more refs and they have been marked. Please fix this. —Compdude123 (talk) 21:13, 16 July 2011 (UTC)

Doesnt have to be perfect for mainspace it is already well beyond a stub article. MilborneOne (talk) 21:20, 16 July 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, ok. But we need to make an effort to find sources for this information and not just forget about it once it's posted on the mainspace. Yes, let's go ahead and make this an actual Wikipedia article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Compdude123 (talk • contribs) 21:26, 16 July 2011 (UTC)

It'll draw more attention and hopefully help on main space. I don't have any dedicated 707 books to cover a lot of the details mentioned in this article. -Fnlayson (talk) 21:38, 16 July 2011 (UTC)
I'll move it in a day or two if there are no objections. Thanks. -Fnlayson (talk) 22:02, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

Have to get the Boeing 720 redirect deleted first. I just tagged it for deletion, so I should be able to move this sandbox early tomorrow. -Fnlayson (talk) 04:51, 20 July 2011 (UTC)

Been moved, if it was not obvious. Thanks. -Fnlayson (talk) 18:52, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

Engines

The 720B used the JT3D-1 and did not have the blow in doors on the engine nacelles. 720's only had two turbocompressors, on engines 2 and 3. (Ambak51 (talk) 14:01, 2 August 2011 (UTC))

The article for the General Electric J57 turbojet engine claims that it was used on the Boeing 720. This is doubtless a mistake worth looking into, since you have clear information that the Boeing 720 used two different versions of Pratt & Whitney turbojets.47.215.211.16 (talk) 04:59, 17 September 2016 (UTC)

The JT3C turbojet (a civil J57) was used on the 720, the 720B used the JT3D turbofan as explained in the article. MilborneOne (talk) 20:48, 17 September 2016 (UTC)

Conflicting details

Under Shorter range 707:

Compared to the 707-120, it has four fewer frames in front of the wing, and one less aft, for a total of 8 feet 4 inches (2.54 m) shorter.

Under Fuselage:

Compared to the 707-120, the 720 had one 20 inch frame removed ahead of the wing and four removed aft for a total reduction of 100 inches.

Lj73 (talk) 09:50, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

Disputed statement in Special handling section

A certain user recently added a "Special handling" section. First of all that whole section is unsourced but I noticed that one of the statements is untrue. It says that the Boeing 720 was the fastest sub-sonic jetliner ever, but I would highly doubt that. AFAIK, the Convair CV-880 had a faster cruise speed than any other subsonic aircraft and set a speed record which still stands today so the previous statement is obviously not true. —Comp dude¹²³ 05:12, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

I'm sorry being too fast whith the speed statement. Never heard about the Convair CV-800, sorry to say. But I hope the photo is worth something reguarding my "special handeling" contribution. Some of the stated issues may very well apply to some other obsolete aircraft aswell, especially the B 707. My rather deep knowlidge about Boeing 720 is (of course) not that I've chosen "Boeing 720" as signature but that the captain on the photo is my dad. Especially after he became captain in 1976, I used do follow with him a couple of times evry year. He was posted at EKCH/CPH Copenhagen Kastrup airport and flew for the danish charter company "Conair" (or "Consolidated Air of Scandinavia") usually to the Mediterranian but also to London, Paris and Salzburg. Until late autumn 1987 he flew Boeing 720 B. Picture shows a Boeing 720A though. In the start he flew DC7 props. And after the Boeing 720 era Airbus A300 and A320. But only the Boeing 720 is a subject of high interest to me. Best reguards Boeing720 (talk) 01:22, 5 April 2012 (UTC)

Incidents and accidents

My edit attributing the destruction of ten Boeing 720s at Beirut airport to an Israeli commando raid (the cause was omitted) has disappeared. Indeed entire mention of this raid, in which also a Vickers Viscount was destroyed, has disappeared from this page. Yet, the destruction of aircraft in a raid by the Tamil Tigers on 24 July 2001 continues to be mentioned, both on the page of the Airbus A340 (one aircraft destroyed) and that of the Airbus A330 (two), as well as that on the page of SriLankan Airlines (I did not check the page of the A320). I would think destruction of ten aircraft in a production run of 154 qualifies as an 'incident'. The page "1968 Israeli raid on Lebanon" remains unaffected. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.134.33.4 (talk) 09:42, 4 January 2015 (UTC)

OD-AFL damaged beyond repair by shelling 21 August 1985
OD-AFO damaged beyond repair by shelling June 1983
OD-AFP damaged beyond repair by shelling 13 June 1982
OD-AFR damaged beyond repair by a bomb 21 August 1981
OD-AFU damaged beyond repair by shelling 16 June 1982
OD-AFW damaged beyond repair by shelling 16 June 1982
OD-AGE damaged beyond repair by shelling 27 June 1976
OD-AGG damaged beyond repair by shelling 1 August 1982
OD-AGQ damaged beyond repair by shelling 21 August 1985
OD-AGR damaged beyond repair by shelling 16 June 1982

As far as I know no 720s were destroyed in the 1968 raid so I have reverted your change. MilborneOne (talk) 11:23, 4 January 2015 (UTC)

Most of the '10 destroyed' text was already there and without a clear source. So I removed the remaining text as uncited. -Fnlayson (talk) 19:10, 4 January 2015 (UTC)

Not quite true - normal engine startup

As my dad was an airliner pilot for 30 years and flew Boeing 720/720B from summer of 1970 until late autumn 1987, and was appointed Captain during the summer of 1976, I know a great deal about these fine machines. I sat in the "jump-seat" probably during more than 50 B720 - flights. I would say that the normal way to start the engines up was, just as stated in the order 3-4-1-2 (since passengers board at port-side, or left side if looking forwards). But at normal airports did the ground crew normally start up all the engines. This was done much faster than using the internal power. The external current could be turned off , as soon as number 3 was running. But what was called "Master start lever" (or something like that), a button-like lever that was located below each of the four throttles. This had three positions cut-off, start-up and idle. To prevent "hotstarts" the engine should run with this lever in start-up position for a duration of two minutes. Not until that time had passed could the lever be put in "idle" position. And first in that position was air-bleeding allowed/possible/unsuitable. It should take 6 minutes before beginning to start up the last engine, with the method that here is described as normal. Using the ground crew for the pneumatical up-spinning of the generators (N2) was much faster. Hence I would say that the normal start-up procedure (at modern airports) was done by the captain requested the ground crew to spinn-up of every engine, one by one. And that air-bleed from engine no 3 was used very seldom, and only if the airport facilities were poor and slow. It was mainly a question about time. I have though no source for this. Boeing720 (talk) 05:18, 29 August 2016 (UTC)

Nice. Do you happen to know any operations manuals you can cite to back you up? We need citations. - Denimadept (talk) 21:24, 5 September 2016 (UTC)

Nice indeed. Where is the source that suggest that the normal start up procedure included air bleeding ? I explained through experience and logic why the ground crew normaly "spinned up" the generators (not inlet fans, they just follow the generator rpm before the fuel comes in to the combustion chamber, which it does when the Master Start Lever is moved from "cutoff" to "start up" (provided the fuel pumps on the F/E panel are on). And if

close up of the engine & autopilot etc part of the cockpit

It's obvious that it lackes autothrottle, with a such contraption would all four throttles be in the same position. I can't proove that the Master Startup Levers have three positions (for both Rolls Royce and P&W engines) but you could for instance download one of either HJG's B707 or B720 for Microsoft Flight Simulator 2004 (they are free) or Captain Sim's B707 for the same simulator program. Although they does not behave 100% as in reality, the three positions "cut off", "start up" and "idle" are present. (On the overhead panel was the "F/O's" start-up switch. If this wasn't put in "GND" position , couldn't the igniting flashes be generated. In turbulence could continous ignition be used, and what today is callet RAT, was called "wind mill" - which when downfolded, generated AC-power, and this could be used if all engines were extinguished. The OH-switch had from left to right "GND", "OFF", "IGN", "IGN", "FLT" and the latter was used when re-starting an engine in air. Why there was two "IGN" switch positions, do I not know.

To the point - the current text isn't supported by any source at all. Either. I say my explination is logical, aside from the fact that I know that I'm right. Air bleeding was not the normal way to start up engines 4,1 and 2. The reason why the engines on the starboard wing still today are started up first, has origin in the fact that passengers enter the aircraft at the port-side. Boeing720 (talk) 17:52, 8 September 2016 (UTC)