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Untitled

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žI think that he is rihgt,Everyone in the computer research field calls him "Bob Kahn". Wikipedia:Naming conventions (common names) says we're supposed to use "the most common name of a person or thing". So I have moved the article to that name. Noel 03:23, 22 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Text removal

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Removed the following pieces of text from the article because they were so wrong:

"Any computer could connect to the network without making any internal changes to it."

Anyone who was working on the project in the late 70's will remember the pain we had to go through to get TCP/IP software into the operating system on most machines. "[no] internal changes"? Pfui.

"TCP, which they modelled after another network protocol, the Networking Control Protocol."

NCP is so totally different from TCP that the connection is tenuous at best. (Also, NCP is usually given as "Network Control Protocol" - although the correct expansion of NCP is actually "Network Control Program" - but the latter is something even I didn't realize until I actually read the old manuals, so I'll give a pass on that).

The whole question of who should be given credit for what in the development of TCP/IP is a lot more complicated that this article makes it sound. Many of the fundamental idea (moving the ack process into the hosts) came from work down by Louis Pouzin, and the people at Xerox PARC had done important precursor work as well. What's in the article is possibly still a bit too thickly laid on, but it's reasonably close to being correct now. Noel 04:10, 22 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Photograph

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The photograph needs a caption as to when it it was taken. Better yet, it should be replaced with something current. That photo must be 30 years old. --angrykeyboarder (a/k/a:Scott) 17:18, 3 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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Requested move 19 April 2024

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The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved to Robert Kahn (computer scientist). Per consensus. – robertsky (talk) 02:47, 3 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Bob Kahn → Robert Kahn – (1) His Turing Award page uses 'Robert' (https://amturing.acm.org/award_winners/kahn_4598637.cfm); (2) Britannica uses 'Robert' (https://www.britannica.com/biography/Robert-Elliot-Kahn); (3) His Internet Hall of Fame page uses 'Robert' (https://www.internethalloffame.org/inductee/robert-kahn/); (4) His Computer History Museum page uses 'Robert' (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKxNMTVnBzM); (5) His academic publications use 'Robert' (e.g. https://dl.acm.org/doi/abs/10.1145/1499949.1499983). The above facts strongly point to the conclusion that 'Robert' is the *more* common name under which he's known by the public (i.e. humanity at large) than 'Bob', and therefore per Wikipedia:Naming conventions (common names) the page should be moved to 'Robert Kahn'. The fact that he's known as 'Bob' to a small subset of humanity — his family members, friends and professional colleagues — does not show that 'Bob' is the more common name. It may be the more common name among that small circle of people, but it's not more the common name simpliciter. Kwoyeu (talk) 06:06, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose, no evidence that he is the primary topic for Robert Kahn. —Kusma (talk) 06:57, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Him having a Turing award and being the only "Robert Kahn" included in Britannica (verifiable by a manual search on Britannica's website; I cannot link to it as it's on the blacklist, for some reason) is pretty good evidence that he's more notable than the other people known as "Robert Kahn". But my main point is about using "Robert" as opposed to "Bob", so I'm fine with moving to either "Robert Kahn (computer scientist)" or, say, "Robert E. Kahn". Kwoyeu (talk) 07:22, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Also worth noting is his much larger page view compared to the composer and the social scientist: see here Kwoyeu (talk) 07:38, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Here is a more complete picture. People do not seem to look for "Robert Kahn", but for "Bob Kahn". —Kusma (talk) 07:56, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That link (and the pageview tool in general) has no bearing on the question of what people *look for* (i.e. what search words they use), but which pages they end up viewing. Paragonite (talk) 09:06, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Some additional sources that use 'Robert':
As recipients of the Medal of Freedom: https://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/government/cerf-kahn-bio.html
National Inventors Hall of Fame: https://www.invent.org/inductees/robert-e-kahn
Engineering and Technology History Wiki (of which IEEE is participating member): https://ethw.org/Robert_Kahn Paragonite (talk) 09:11, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Bob Kahn is both a natural disambiguation and a nice parallel with Vint Cerf. —Kusma (talk) 10:38, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"Robert E. Kahn" naturally disambiguates just as well, and has the added advantage of better meeting the "more often seen in reliable sources" criteria (Wikipedia:Naming conventions (common names)), as expressed in "Wikipedia ... generally prefers the name that is most commonly used (as determined by its prevalence in a significant majority of independent, reliable, English-language sources) [my emphasis]" and in "... the term or name most typically used in reliable sources is generally preferred. Other encyclopedias are among the sources that may be helpful in deciding what titles are in an encyclopedic register, as well as what names are most frequently used. [my emphasis]"
The reliable sources include but is not limited to:
Britannica: https://www.britannica.com/biography/Robert-Elliot-Kahn
NPR: Computing Pioneers Discuss the State of the Net : NPR
IEEE biography: http://www.ieeeghn.org/wiki/index.php/Robert_Kahn
Presidential Medal of Freedom: https://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/government/cerf-kahn-bio.html
National Medal of Technology: https://nationalmedals.org/laureate/robert-e-kahn/
ACM/Turing Award: https://amturing.acm.org/award_winners/kahn_4598637.cfm
National Inventors Hall of Fame: https://www.invent.org/inductees/robert-e-kahn
Princeton: https://ece.princeton.edu/news/graduate-alumnus-robert-kahn-founder-internet-awarded-madison-medal
National Academy of Sciences: https://www.nasonline.org/member-directory/members/45251.html
See the References and External links sections at Bob Kahn: the use of 'Robert (E.) Kahn' vastly weighs 'Bob Kahn'. Paragonite (talk) 11:20, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
So do you think Vint Cerf should be moved? —Kusma (talk) 11:24, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Why do you think that's something I might suggest? The answer to that question depends on the application of reliable sources criteria cited earlier. As a matter of fact, the reliable sources criteria does *not* yield a clear winner. There's no near overwhelming preference of either over the other, as there is for 'Robert' over 'Bob':
https://www.britannica.com/biography/Vinton-Cerf (Britannica, identified in title as 'Vinton')
https://amturing.acm.org/award_winners/cerf_1083211.cfm (ACM/Turing, identified in title as 'Vinton')
https://www.internetsociety.org/author/cerf/ (Internet Society, identified in title as 'Vint')
https://computerhistory.org/profile/vint-cerf/ (Computer History Museum, identified in title as 'Vint')
https://research.google/people/vinton-g-cerf/ (Google Research page, identified in title as 'Vinton'; author name as 'Vint' in some publications, 'Vinton' in others)
https://www.nist.gov/director/vcat/biography-dr-vinton-g-cerf (NIST, 'Vinton')
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/brief/467941/vint-cerf (PBS, 'Vint') Paragonite (talk) 11:54, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support, most sources seem to use 'Robert'. I would prefer 'Robert Kahn (computer scientist)' as opposed to 'Robert E. Kahn' because that seems to be what most people would look for, but our sources are split so I wouldn't be opposed to the initial. Readingpro256 talk to me contribs 17:44, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support with a disambiguator, (computer scientist) is a good choice. Killuminator (talk) 09:40, 21 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Robert Kahn (computer scientist). Though I also would not object to making him ptopic for the base name, since he gets orders of magnitude more views than any other Robert Kahn. Colin M (talk) 18:33, 26 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support, either with disambiguator or as main article for the name. While "Bob Kahn" is what most of us in the Internet technical community may know him by, he does go by "Robert Kahn" in most all official and formal notices, awards, etc. that I have seen. It makes more sense to me to have the article have "Robert" and then have a redirect from "Bob Kahn". - Dyork (talk) 21:07, 29 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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