Talk:Blood type personality theory/Archive 1

Archive 1

Archive 2

ketsu eki gata

A mention in this article makes it appear as if ketsu eki gata means blood type personality theories. This is not the case, it might imply such theories, but ketsu eki gata simply means blood type, even to doctors. Malnova 23:37, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

I looked it up and blood type theory of personality is called 血液型性格分類 or ketsu eki gata seikaku bunrui. Malnova 01:07, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

Split from Blood type

This section grew to a point where, due to its thorough but pseudoscientific nature, it became clear that it qualified to be an additional article. A proposal was made on the talk page and there was no response after several days. Thus, the split has been done. The Hokkaido Crow 06:16, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

Video games?

I'm thinking there should be some mention of video games in this article. Virtually any Japanese-made game with character bios will include blood type, and it's my impression that this is where many Westerners would be most familiar with the concept. alpha5099 12:26, 15 2005 (EST)

Well, I'm a Westerner and I've never heard of the video game thing. That doesn't mean it's untrue, just that it's maybe not as well known as you think. But I don't see why it couldn't go in the article. I was thinking about making the Applications section into a bullet list anyway, this could be a bullet point. The Hokkaido Crow 01:09, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

I've had limited experience with seeing this kind of thing in video games, but most anime characters (and voice actors!) have known blood types. --Boco XLVII 22:05, 25 July 2005 (UTC)

The only example I can think of is Final Fantasy VII, so I have mentioned it. One of the puzzles in Shadow Hearts 2 involves working out a character's blood type, but it would be a spoiler to mention it ;) Tim! (talk) 18:24, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

Final Fantasy VII, Dead or Alive Series. Gungriffon Series games have had a blood type choice in character creation. I'm pretty sure Street Fighter does, and I recall a couple other games that have too but since I cannot sure which ones, I am reluctant to use it in argument.--Alfador 06:45, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

Street Fighter, The King of Fighters, almost any fighting game made in Japan has blood types included in character profiles. Mortal Kombat did not in the 2-D games, and—correct me if I am wrong—still does not use it. EA Sports BIG's SSX series used it.

Mortal Kombat is an American made game series so they probably wouldn't mention blood types of the characters in the older games. As for the Street Fighters, I've never seen one that mentioned blood type, at least not for an arcade version (console verson manuals might have .em).Lando242 20:44, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Lots of games on the Nintendo DS ask you to put in your blood type when you play. One is 'Theme Park', which was originally a British game. I thought that was interesting. I put the '?' mark option (though I am actually AB) in case it affects the game somehow.. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.69.9.93 (talk) 15:48, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Currently one of the games mentioned in the article is Metal Gear Solid 2, but the information you enter has no effect on gameplay whatsoever, except to show up on a set of military dog tags at the very end of the game! And, well, blood type is a pretty standard thing to list on dog tags, so I'm not really sure this game qualifies as an example of this article...? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.221.126.79 (talk) 21:54, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

Just a thought...

Would a Rh+ type of blood give positive traits, and Rh- negative? ^,^ 81.232.72.148 22:40, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

Nope. Rh- blood is very rare in Japan, so I doubt that's considered as a factor. --Feiriri 18:48, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

Rhesus Factor

I will not comment on what the Rhesus Factor does to personality traits, but there might be some significance. If anyone, perhaps Oni Ookami Alfador, can find out anything, then it would be nice.

How does one tag an article for "Info needed"?

Might be wrong, but from my experiences the Japanese have never noted much if any of a corellation between Rh factor and personality. --Oni Ookami Alfador^Talk|@ 05:04, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

other..

What about other blood types? 70.36.255.222 05:58, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

What would those be? The only human blood types are A+, A-, B+, B-, AB+, AB-, O+, and O-. And + vs - doesn't come in to play according to this theory, so it is pretty strictly limited to the four "blood Groups"--Oni Ookami Alfador^Talk|@ 07:42, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

There are many uncommon blood types, usually in small ethnic groups, throughout the world. I doubt they would be taken into consideration in Japan's ABO personality trait analysis, though. Bart Simpson's "double O negative" type blood cannot exist, however, as it is a logical fallacy. 153.104.16.114 01:22, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

Nonetheless, it doesn't really make a whole lot of sense to mention them. This article is about the theory, and as a result, only the blood types it accounts for.--Oni Ookami Alfador^Talk|@ 02:35, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

Contradiction?

"In Japan AB blood type is often considered the least social type." This is from the section "Character trait associations," however, the "Japanese Blood Type Personality Chart" claims Type AB as "Sociable and popular." What's going on here? 153.104.16.114 01:20, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

I was wondering the same thing...--65.95.148.233 02:16, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

Its because people kept deciding to reword it from the original statement without any veryfication. I put it back.--Oni Ookami Alfador^Talk|@ 02:36, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

AB types are the spilt personallity of the group. They can be both social and antisocial. What makes them so unique is they can consciously choose what kind of person they want to be. See ABO fan website ^.- --Clockword

Proven?

In chapter Applications there's written "The proven lack of correlation between blood type and personality...". Who prove this lack of correlation? When and where have the results been published? It seems to be obvious that there is no correlation, but I don't think that it has been proven. If I am right, the text needs to be corrected. --217.229.89.247 19:27, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

I changed it to "lack of proven correlation". That is definitely true, and is possibly what was intended in the first place.--Oni Ookami Alfador^Talk|@ 21:49, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

Individuality

Since when was individuality a negative trait? (Type B) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.110.214.104 (talk • contribs)

Since people signed their comments and used section titles for new info. Different cultures view things differently. This is an article on a cultural aspect of Japan. They may treat individuality differently. Anyways, I'd like to pose the arguement that it could be considered that individuality is in considered a negative trait in america too. With the exception of Sesame street and a few MTV generation emo crowd musings, I've noticed that people do not consider indivudality as a great trait--Oni Ookami Alfador^Talk|@ 04:50, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

I would certainly say that generally, Japanese people do not view individuality as a positive trait. It undermines group cohesion and there is the proverb that everyone learns about the "nail that sticks up getting hammered down". Malnova 21:36, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

First and foremost, this article isn't about how certain traits are viewed in Japan. Second, individuality is not particularly unacceptable in Japan. The misunderstanding comes from the fact that Westerners think individuality as meaning "doing whatever I want, whenever I want." What's unacceptable is selfishness. Westerners are generally incapable of distinguishing individualism from selfishness, rebellion, and isolationism; thus they misunderstand how Japanese think of individuality. The Crow 13:14, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

Individuality is often actively and willfully suppressed from school age onward in Japan. I learned of this in my studies before I came here, and have seen it in practice in my ten years here. I understand your take on selfishness/individuality, but these two traits often go hand in hand. Being too individual (however stereotypical Western that term/concept is) is considered largely considered selfish over here. Of course, this is a generalization, most discourse of this nature "generally" contain generalization, but you can't just dismiss the "perceived" difference by simply "generalizing" what Westerners are generally capable and incapable of distinguishing. Also, I agree with you that this article is not about how certain traits are viewed in Japan, but if traits are going to rated worst and best we are going to run into problems.Malnova 20:23, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

If you can generalize that individuality isn't desirable in Japan, then I can generalize that Westerners don't really understand what individuality is. The truth in reality is of course more complex. Ayumi Hamasaki is a type B, quite individualistic, and I do not notice widespread condemnation of her. But this is beside the point; if we both agree that this particular article is not the place to characterize how Japanese view personality traits, then it's all good. The Crow 20:48, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

Well, I could argue the difference between generalizing Japanese views and generalizing what Westerners are incapable of, but it's too early in the morning. How bout that World Cup final, hey? Yes, agreed, this article is not about the Japanese view of personality traits. Malnova 21:05, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

Pseudoscience (duh)

I'm a bit disappointed that the introduction to this article begins with "Dismissed by many scientists as superstition or pseudoscience..." Why don't we begin the astrological sign article with a sentence like this? Sorry if I'm being too picky, but I just notice that because this doesn't have an established "school of thought" basis (like astrology), it is important to point out how obviously this must be pseudoscience. Honestly, I find parallels with this and other things people may claim pseudoscientific, like religion. However I believe it is not wise to assume science is "God" (sorry for the ambiguity). But back to the article, honestly I do not believe in this theory, nor do I believe in the astrological signs or anything like that. I'm not trying to say I want the article to support one or the other. I just believe that maybe we should give it a less harsh treatment. I'm not trying to be an idiot about this (WP:AGF). Horncomposer 08:47, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

I feel the same way. It's biased and not NPOV. --Nissi Kim 05:31, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

genetic link

The latest addition to the article (June 22-23) about a "possible" personality link is controversial claim needs a citation. If one can't be produced it should be removed. Malnova 10:32, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Un-reverted. If you want a citation use the "citeneeded" template --apers0n 11:32, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

No, that's not how it works. Citeneeded is for unchallenged statements that are not disputed. Malnova challenges this claim, and so do I. Per Jimmy Wales, in Wikipedia policy WP:V: Jimmy Wales has said of this: "I can NOT emphasize this enough. There seems to be a terrible bias among some editors that some sort of random speculative 'I heard it somewhere' pseudo information is to be tagged with a 'needs a cite' tag. Wrong. It should be removed, aggressively, unless it can be sourced. It is against Wikipedia policy for you to add material that is unsourced, controversial, and challeneged by other editors. The Crow 13:30, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

PS - Any valid cite on this claim must reference a peer-reviewed scientific source linking blood type to personality, not pseudoscientific claims from a weight loss group. The Crow 13:37, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

The current edit (06-6-28) about a possible genetic link is certainly more cited, expounded and qualified than the previous version. By the way, ApersOn, the Minor edit slight was not intentional, I have it on as a default and simply neglected to click it off before I hit the edit button. I'll be more careful in the future. Malnova 20:40, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Thank you Malnova, and I apologize for the initial edit without adding source, I was not aware of the 'aggressive' removal policy. I will tidy it up and make it a bit more readable when I have time (soon). --apers0n 21:16, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

A word for this?

Shame there's no English word for this. But if there were one, it would be "haematomancy".  : ) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.59.25.144 (talk)

That's an obsolete word for "diagnosis formed by examining the condition of the blood" [1], more recently used in Harry Potter [2] where it is more to do with divination in wizardry than personality. --apers0n 07:14, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

nutso

Okay, so what are some things that most Americans (or Westerners in general) believe that the Japanese find crazy? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 217.132.5.242 (talk) 05:49, 8 December 2006 (UTC).

How about walking under a ladder causes bad luck? —Lowellian (reply) 01:52, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Incoherent sentence

"The ABO blood group system and platelet monoamine oxidase (MAO) activity are known to be two genetic markers for affective disorder. In researching a connection between the two markers, one study found that the platelet MAO activity of subjects with blood type O was significantly lower than that of subjects with other blood types,[3][4] criminal behaviour,[5] alcoholism, antisocial personality and impulsivity.[6]" Does this mean that type-Os are more or less likely to engage in impulsive, criminal behavior? Does this mean that I am more or less likely to be a troll? Fellacious 18:06, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

I second the criticism. The end of this sentence is meaningless. Spamhog 22:27, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

style

isn't there a style guide for defining Japanese subjects? Like, involving the English word, then the term in Hiragana, Kanji, then Romanji or something? Blueaster 07:41, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes there is, Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style_(Japan-related_articles). A great many Japanese entries don't follow this (for example, modern Japanese names not ordered in the western style when written in romaji), so there's a lot of work to be done if you fancy helping! ShizuokaSensei 11:37, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Obvious nonsense

"Congenital dopamine beta-hydroxylase deficiency is caused by mutation in the gene encoding dopamine beta-hydroxylase on chromosome 9q34, also the ABO locus.[2]" Read the paper carefully before inserting such a nonsense. Or go to Bio-101. <eg> --80.136.168.189 07:40, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

About tue graph of famous

I'm talking about before 16:10, 26 June 2007. The graphic chart was made by only bloody racists. They weren't sure of true blood type of those great people, so I deleted it. Why nobody thinks the graph was wrong and made by racist who doesen't like specific blood type. They don't want put in the person such as Hitler to the graph of another bloodtype, forexample TypeB has Hideki Tojo, Type O have Benito Mussolini , they are famous blood typeB and O. And why don't want put in the bloodtype A who are Robert F Kennedy or Wilbur Wright or Akira Toriyama　or Arthur Antunes Coimbra　or whatever. I can show the proper data more. If you want to make a chart, you have to be fair, and course you have to make it by using true data.--Jamaiconer 18:01, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

There is absolutly nothing about racism in the game - westerners do not differentiate anyone by blood type. The vast majority does not even know their own blood type (not to speak of anyone in their family or the neighborhood). I guess that you argue under the impression that the selection should show a value in the blood group assignment - however westerners assume a random distribution anyway. If you want to exchange some names then go ahead but the roster itself should stay - most visitors will not read the text but the roster can make for some amusement anyway. Get the idea? Guidod 19:20, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Oh, after reading up the lastest changes.... you were shorting the Nazi myth but that myth is wrong anyway. Nazi racism did barely talk about asians anyway and blood type selection was never included in the actual racistic differentiation at the time. The referenced report (that you were deleting!!) did say very loud that the interest in blood group distribution died away soon.... and before any "eugenics" program started. Note that as a fact. - Sorry, but the best consequence is to revert your changes as they seem to be made on a wrong point of view. Guidod 19:38, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Jamaiconer, today you kept some names on the table but deleted the character portions. Please explain your crusade here, thank you. Guidod 18:27, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Because that character portion was made up by Nomi. Despite that ambiguity of his theory was fully explained in the main text. Why is it necessary to show on the graph the character portion of NOMI. You don't have to stick to NOMI's character portion. Anyway, even if you want to put NOMI's character portion, you don't have to revert the graph to wrong version, do you?

I am fully aware that Western people don‘t stick to the theory of Blood Type, and I have never thought that Blood Type has any affect on the individual temperament. I brought up the subject of graphic figures not because I place the value on the theory of Blood Type, but because a discrimination could be caused by such theory. If a graph is to be made at all, it must be made on objective and fair consideration. Otherwise, there comes ups always someone who take advantage of the Blood Type theory for the purpose of discrimination. --Jamaiconer 04:11, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

I guess you refer to Masahiko Nomi, however one can set the table caption to notify the casual reader of that point. An overview is a good thing for westerners to grasp an idea of the (over-)simplification. Be sure that nobody in the western world will use any of these items for discrimination and other people will have access to bood type theory tables from other sources anyway. - Thanks however for pointing out that people are squared differently by character designations of different authors, it should be reflected more about in the text. Guidod 18:10, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

I've reinstated the character traits but deleted the list of people - I feel that the character traits would be more useful to people reading the article. (especially as most people would come here from a character's, or idol's biography.) The list of people could probably be taken as OR anyway, by implying that they fit the traits. -Malkinann 02:17, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

In German version, the bloodtypes of the celebrities are listed in Wikipedia, which are totally fabricated by Guidod.-9CL 14:26, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

That's a lie - I have not fabricated anything in the table, the German version (the article text incuding the table) has been merily a translation of the English version. This blood type theory was 100% unknown in Central Europe until then - I have gone the path of reverting deletions on seemingly unfounded claims. So far there has not been given any counterexample where the person bloodtype relationship in the table would be proven wrong, so I assume it was assembled faithfully by the original author. Guidod 22:01, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

So, why did you reverted to the FABRICATED theory, instead of maintaining the correct theory? There existed two tables; one was FABRICATED(which you chose), and the other one was correct(well not all of them except the ones I added). So if you are intresed in the bloodtype celeb, then I will let you know the fabricated parts on your board. Just have a look.--9CL 15:13, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

I've explained why I deleted the list of celebrities here - the English Wikipedia is not the same as the German Wikipedia. I'm not exactly sure what you think the problem is with the article, 9CL. If you can cite a reliable source as you change the article, that would help. -Malkinann 22:40, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

eugenics program

"The discovery of blood types in 1901 has been hailed as one of the greatest advances in medical history, but the breakthrough was then distorted by the Nazis to further their eugenics program, who claimed the superiority of Germans — mostly types A and O — over Jews, Asians and others with a larger proportion of type B blood."

Let's make that very loud - the blood type was NOT used in Nazi eugenics programs. The correlations were researched in earlier decades (whereas phrenology was much more important) but it was not USED (!!) for the actual programs. The Nazi movement has check everything available but the blood type differentiation was debunked way before the Nazis took over power. To draw a line from racist statistics to Nazi eugenic programs is PLAIN WRONG - Wikipedia shall not trade misinformation from uninformed authors. And just for a fact, the 1930/1940 German laws commonly referred to as "race laws" did only define Arian race by genetic heritage - every citizen had to investigate that and document the family strains in an de:Ahnenpass. Top leaders had to document their de:Arische_Abstammung over two hundred years (back to 1750). Guidod 12:54, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

Alright, I have no problem with deleting the sentence then. Just for the record - you are saying the claim made by the Associated Press is plain wrong, and we agree to delete the claim. Thanks for your patience. --BorgQueen 14:25, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

It's more a telephone game - the AP article starts out correct with "theory, imported from its Nazi supporters and adopted by Tokyo's militarist government in the 1930s" then gets it wrong by "perverted by the Nazis to claim the superiority of Germans" which can be easily catched as bad as the real racism used the Aryan ideology, same for the wrong generic relation over Asians unless you exclude Japanese from the term to make Axis_powers work as they did in reality (note Honorary Aryans). While these references to propaganda are soft facts the Wikipedia text entry blows it all off finally in converting "superiority claims" into "further eugenics programs" which contradicts historic evidence. - Sure, there had been a lot of bad going on in Nazi times and some of the wildest theories floating around among Nazi followers but I can not recall a significant reference as that blood type theory had any stronghold in the official Nazi ideology in the 1930s or later. Perhaps the American Press editor did falsly mix in ideology bits from the American White Power movement but their bits of supremacy over Asian strains is a later invention that was not an important part of the historic Nazi roots AFAIK. Guidod 19:30, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

Type A Earnest worst trait?

"Worst Traits: Earnest," - since is when is being earnest bad? --AnonEMouse ^(squeak) 19:59, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

I agree, how is being earnest(definition: Earnest implies having a purpose and being steadily and soberly eager in pursuing it.) bad? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.91.115.170 (talk) 00:11, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

How to translate "serious" to sound bad in English?--9CL 22:43, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

How about sedate, sober, solemn, humorless, or grave.Map88 (talk) 05:56, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

Grieve? Cobby?!

What the hell! Phyte 15:49, 5 November 2007 (UTC)