Talk:Black and Tan Terrier

Dogs Low‑importance

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Dogs, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of articles related to Canidae and commonly referred to as "dogs" and of which the domestic dog is but one of its many members, on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.DogsWikipedia:WikiProject DogsTemplate:WikiProject DogsDogs articles

Low

This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

WikiProject Dogs To-do:

Here are some tasks you can do to help with WikiProject Dogs:

Recent changes patrol: members can review the recent changes list to be aware of improvements or vandalism.
Expand and improve citations: Akita (dog), American Bully, Artois Hound, Azawakh, Barbet (dog), Basset Fauve de Bretagne, Bavarian Mountain Hound, Bearded Collie, Beauceron, Berger Picard, Black and Tan Terrier, Black Norwegian Elkhound, Border Collie, Border Terrier, Bouvier des Ardennes, Bouvier des Flandres, Braque du Bourbonnais, Brazilian Terrier, Briquet Griffon Vendéen, Brittany (dog), Bullenbeisser, Bull Terrier, Ca de Bou, Cairn Terrier, Cardigan Welsh Corgi, Campeiro Bulldog, Central Asian Shepherd Dog, Chilean Terrier, Chow Chow, Colombian Fino Hound, Corsican Dog, Cretan Hound, Croatian Sheepdog, Czechoslovakian Wolfdog, Danish Spitz, Dingo, Dobermann, Dogue Brasileiro, Dunker, East Siberian Laika, English Cocker Spaniel, English Foxhound, English Toy Terrier (Black & Tan), Erbi Txakur, Estonian Hound, Estrela Mountain Dog, Finnish Lapphund, Flat-coated Retriever, French Bulldog, Galgo Español, Gaucho sheepdog, German Hound, German Shepherd, German Wirehaired Pointer, Glen of Imaal Terrier, Gordon Setter, Great Dane, Greek Harehound, Griffon Bruxellois, Guatemalan Dogo, Gull Dong, Halden Hound, Hamiltonstövare, Hanover Hound, Havanese dog, Hokkaido (dog), Hovawart, Ibizan Hound, Icelandic Sheepdog, Indian Spitz, Irish Setter, Irish Terrier, Irish Water Spaniel, Istrian Coarse-haired Hound, Jagdterrier, Jämthund, Kai Ken, Karakachan dog, Karelian Bear Dog, Karst Shepherd, Keeshond, Kokoni, Kooikerhondje, Koolie, Kuchi dog, Kuvasz, Labrador Retriever, Large Münsterländer, Lucas Terrier, Magyar Agár, Miniature Bull Terrier, Miniature Fox Terrier, Mongrel, Mountain Cur, Northern Inuit Dog, Norwegian Elkhound, Norwich Terrier, Old Danish Pointer, Old English Bulldog, Old English Sheepdog, Pastor Garafiano, Pastore della Lessinia e del Lagorai, Patterdale Terrier, Pekingese, Perro Majorero, Peruvian Hairless Dog, Petit Basset Griffon Vendéen, Pharaoh Hound, Plummer Terrier, Plott Hound, Polish Greyhound, Porcelaine, Portuguese Water Dog, Pudelpointer, Rajapalayam dog, Rat Terrier, Saarloos wolfdog, Sabueso Español, Saint Miguel Cattle Dog, Šarplaninac, Schipperke, Serrano Bulldog, Shikoku dog, Skye Terrier, Sloughi, Slovak Cuvac, Small Münsterländer, Smithfield (dog), Smooth Collie, South Russian Ovcharka, Spanish Water Dog, Standard Schnauzer, Swedish Vallhund, Tatra Shepherd Dog, Terceira Mastiff, Thai Bangkaew Dog, Tibetan Mastiff, Tibetan spaniel, Tornjak, Weimaraner, Welsh Hound, Welsh Terrier, West Siberian Laika, Westphalian Dachsbracke, Xoloitzcuintle, Xigou
Stub class articles in need of development: Alapaha Blue Blood Bulldog, Argentine pila dog, Armant (dog), Assyrian Mastiff, Banjara Hound, Billy (dog), Braque Dupuy, Bruno Jura Hound, Bulgarian Scenthound, Ca Rater Mallorquí, Calupoh, Campeiro Bulldog, Can de Chira, Cane Paratore, Cantabrian Water Dog, Chortai, Córdoba fighting dog, Denmark Feist, East European Shepherd, English Shepherd, Faroese Sheepdog, Gończy Polski, Grand Griffon Vendéen, Gull Dong, Hanover Hound, Hygen Hound, Japanese Terrier, Kaikadi (dog), Kars dog, Koyun dog, Kunming dog, Kurdish Mastiff, Levriero Sardo, Mahratta Hound, Majorca Ratter, Maneto, Markiesje, Molossus (dog), Montenegrin Mountain Hound, Rampur Greyhound, Romanian Mioritic Shepherd Dog, Sapsali, Sarabi dog, Schweizer Laufhund, Segugio Maremmano, Segugio dell'Appennino, Sinhala Hound, St. Hubert Jura Hound, Taigan, Tatra Shepherd Dog, Tazy, Toy Bulldog, Treeing Cur, Vikhan Sheepdog, Westphalian Dachsbracke, White Shepherd
Suggested Featured Articles due for re-assessment: Beagle (2007)
Suggested Good Articles due for re-assessment: Swift fox (2008); Cavalier King Charles Spaniel (2009); Clumber Spaniel (2009); Russian Spaniel (2009); Sussex Spaniel (2009)
Requested images: Briquet de Provence, Denmark Feist, Erbi Txakur, Jeju dog, Kaikadi (dog), Kars dog, Koyun dog, Levriero Sardo, Liangshan Dog, Perdigueiro Galego, Segugio dell'Appennino, St. Hubert Jura Hound, Tarsus çatalburun, Tibetan Kyi Apso, Vikhan Sheepdog, Villanuco de Las Encartaciones

Wales Low‑importance

	Wales portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Wales, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Wales on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.WalesWikipedia:WikiProject WalesTemplate:WikiProject WalesWales articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

History

And what is being disputed? The early history of the Welsh Terrier is quite clear and sources are noted. Has the person disputing this read Bardi McLennan's book on the Welsh Terrier, which is rather impressively detailed? Preceding unsigned comment added by PBurns3711 (talk • contribs) 02:40, 10 October 2006‎

The point is that this reads like an essay or a sermon, it is not write in neutral voice, and the author is presenting original work as established fact. No one is disputing the descent of the Welsh Terrier from black-and-tan terrier types, but lots of terriers claim this ancestry AFAIK. Quill 03:12, 11 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, wrong on all counts. No wonder your dispute note was unsupported by a question or a clear point.

What is presented in this piece is not "opinion" unless you think opinion has dates, place locations, and actual organizations adding and striking names off of show ring rolls. The history of the Old English Black and Tan is not a closely held secret and is well-documented by Bardi McLennan (I am not her) in her excellent book on the Welsh Terrier, which is cited. The research is hers, and I have checked it out at the original sources, and she is entirely right (no surprise -- she does her homework!)

People who work their dogs are under no illusion that the black and tan terrier is extinct (a picture of one from one of this morning's working terrier boards can be seen here >> http://www.terrierman.com/blackandtanmussellshuntinglife.jpg ). This is not a modern welsh terrier -- it is the original black and tan fell terrier as it looked then, and as it looked now. The history of terriers is not long or complex (about 150 years or 10 generations of dogs) and useful working breeds do not die out overnight. The black and tan still exists as a working dog because it is a useful breed. The fact that the Black and Tan terrier is not a Kennel Club breed seems to present a lot of confusion to folks in the Kennel Club, but in fact the breed was drawn into the Kennel Club as the Welsh Terrier as the article notes (and as an examination of Kennel Club history shows).

It is odd that you still do not seem to have read the Wikipedia article yet. The article does indeed note that the fell terrier (black and tan fell, red fell, brown fell and black fell) is what created the Lakeland Terrier, the Border Terrier, the Manchester Terrier, the Patterdale Terrier) as well as the Welsh Terrier. Perhaps a re-reading of the second and third paragraphs are in order?

As for tone, if this article does not drone too much, I do not think that is much of a fault. Since you offer no examples of what is wrong in tone or fact, and since you apparently did not even read the piece very closely, one has to assume your points are pretty minor. — Preceding unsigned comment added by PBurns3711 (talk • contribs) 12:27, 11 October 2006‎

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Black and Tan Terrier. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20060929192219/http://www.leaney.org:80/lake_district_walks_overview.php to http://www.leaney.org/lake_district_walks_overview.php

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{Sourcecheck}}).

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 18:51, 3 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Merger proposal:Old English Terrier

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

The result of this discussion was redirect. Cavalryman (talk) 09:14, 11 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I propose to ~~merge~~ redirect Old English Terrier to Black and Tan Terrier. David Hancock's Sporting Terriers^[1] states definitively that the Old English Terrier is the same as the Black and Tan Terrier. Another article by Hancock that is very similar to what he says in his book can be seen here. The merger will be accompanied by a complete rewrite and sourcing of the this page. Cavalryman (talk) 23:21, 4 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Have amended proposal above per developing consensus below, I agree, there is nothing attributed in the Old English Terrier page to merge. Courtesy ping to William Harris who’s !vote preceded this change in direction. Cavalryman (talk) 00:54, 10 June 2020 (UTC).[reply]

~~Support~~ Redirect as per JLAN. Further secondary source from Cummins in his book The Terriers of England and Wales: their history and development (2019) found here. William Harristalk 08:36, 5 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect, not merge. The present article cites a couple of antique books which have generic content about terriers but no mention of this one, and an American "breed registry" which has been defunct since about 2008. There is not one word of reliably-sourced on-topic text in that page, so nothing to merge. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 21:51, 6 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect - I agree with JLAN. ^Atsme _Talk 📧 14:35, 9 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect, per the above. I'm not opposed to selective merger if something in the merge-from article is useful and can be better-sourced than it presently is. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼 21:51, 9 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ Hancock, David (2011). Sporting Terriers: Their Form, Their Function and Their Future. Ramsbury, Marlborough: The Crowood Press Ltd. p. 96. ISBN 978-1-84797-303-0.

Done. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 10:35, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Copyright problem removed

Prior content in this article duplicated one or more previously published sources. The material was copied from: https://web.archive.org/web/20071120054618/http://terriermandotcom.blogspot.com/2004/11/non-extinct-terriers-other-mysteries.html. Copied or closely paraphrased material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see "using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or "donating copyrighted materials" if you are.)

For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or published material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use copyrighted publications as a source of information, and, if allowed under fair use, may copy sentences and phrases, provided they are included in quotation marks and referenced properly. The material may also be rewritten, providing it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Therefore, such paraphrased portions must provide their source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 21:05, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

[1] Hancock, David (2011). Sporting Terriers: Their Form, Their Function and Their Future. Ramsbury, Marlborough: The Crowood Press Ltd. p. 96. ISBN 978-1-84797-303-0.

[1]