Talk:Black Sabbath/GA1

GA Review

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Hello, I will be reviewing this article. Check back soon for a full review! CarpetCrawler^{message me} 02:24, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

GA on hold

This article is incredibly well written and excellently sourced. I can see that an incredible amount of effort was put into getting this article into the excellent quality it's in today. However, I do have concerns, that I hope you can address. They are as follows.

- "As one of the first and most influential heavy metal bands of all time,[3] Black Sabbath helped define the genre with releases such as 1970's quadruple-platinum Paranoid.[4] They were ranked by MTV as the Greatest Metal Band of all time.[5]" Are you able to extend this stubby paragraph that is in the lead, or combine it with another paragraph?

Combined.--Cannibaloki 16:51, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

- Same goes for the last two paragraphs. The lead looks fantastic, but two sentences for a paragraph is kind of a stubby lead.

Combined.--Cannibaloki 16:51, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

- "The group enlisted bassist Geezer Butler and vocalist Ozzy Osbourne, who had played together in a band called Rare Breed, Osbourne having placed an advertisement in a local music shop: "Ozzy Zig requires gig- has own PA"." Does this band, "Rare Breed", have an article on Wikipedia? If so, wikify it. :)

Don't have. --Cannibaloki 16:51, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

- "Butler wrote a song called "Black Sabbath" after reading a book by occult writer Dennis Wheatley, and seeing a black-hooded figure standing at the foot of his bed.[13]" Wait, who saw the black-hooded figure? Butler, or the author, or the character in the book? And are there any more details available about this "black-hooded figure"? Also, what Wheatley book was Butler reading?

Reworded.--Cannibaloki 05:57, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

- "Making use of the musical tritone, also known as "The Devil's Interval", the song's ominous sound and dark lyrics pushed the band in a darker direction, a stark contrast to the popular music of the late 1960s, which was dominated by flower power, folk music, and hippie culture. Inspired by the new sound, the band changed their name to Black Sabbath in August 1969, and made the decision to focus on writing similar material, in an attempt to create the musical equivalent of horror films." Should be sourced, especially the "ominous sound" and "dark lyrics" statements.

Sourced.--Cannibaloki 05:57, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

- The article says, "the album reached number 23 on the Billboard 200, where it remained for over a year, selling a million copies.[15][16]", then says "It has since been certified Platinum in the US[18] and Gold in Canada.[19]" If an album sells a million copies, it is certified Platinum. However, the second sentence makes it sound like the album sold a million later on, while the first sentence makes it sound like a million were sold right away. So, which is correct? Did it sell a million right away, or later on?

Later on, in 1986 to be exact.--Cannibaloki 16:51, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

I removed the "...selling a million copies.", and rewrote the last sentence.--Cannibaloki 02:28, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

- Just in general, throughout the article, it says an album was released in, for example, "October 1970." I'm guessing no speficic date for some of the albums is available?

There is a range of dates between the countries, sometimes the use of such details becomes redundant; but I'll see what can I do.--Cannibaloki 16:51, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, it's not a life or death thing, don't worry about it. :) CarpetCrawler^{message me} 03:44, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

- "Although the single failed to reach the top 40, "Iron Man" remains one of Black Sabbath's most popular songs, as well as the bands highest charting US single until 1998's "Psycho Man".[15]" Wikify "Psycho Man", if that has an article.

Don't have.--Cannibaloki 02:28, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

- "Black Sabbath also appeared on England's Top of the Pops in 1973, sharing the stage with such diverse acts as Engelbert Humperdinck and Diana Ross." Wait, Ross and Humperdinck were on the stage with them while they performed?

I removed this sentence, as I did not find any reference to confirm this performance in 1973 with these artists. --Cannibaloki 19:45, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

- "The album included "Dirty Women", which remains a live staple, as well as Bill Ward's first lead vocal on the song "It's Alright". Touring in support of Technical Ecstasy began in November 1976, with openers Boston and Ted Nugent in the US, and completed in Europe with AC/DC in April 1977." Needs to be sourced.

All sourced.--Cannibaloki 02:28, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

- "On 8 January 1978, Black Sabbath made their first and only appearance with Walker on vocals, playing an early version of the song "Junior's Eyes" on the BBC Television program "Look! Hear!"." Also needs a source, though I'm sure a cite episode template would work well here. :)

Sourced.--Cannibaloki 02:28, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

- "Black Sabbath toured the US throughout 1980 with Blue Öyster Cult on the "Black and Blue" tour, with a show at Nassau Coliseum in Uniondale, New York filmed and released theatrically in 1981 as Black and Blue. On 26 July 1980, the band played at a sold out Memorial Coliseum in Los Angeles with Journey, Cheap Trick, and Molly Hatchet to 100,000 fans. The next day, the band appeared at the 1980 Day on the Green at Oakland Coliseum. While on tour, Black Sabbath's former label in England issued a live album culled from a seven-year old performance, entitled Live at Last without any input from the band. The album reached number five on the British charts, and saw the re-release of "Paranoid" as a single, which reached the top 20." Needs to be sourced.

All sourced.--Cannibaloki 15:57, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

- "Again produced by Martin Birch, and recorded at John Lennon's old house in Ascot, England, Black Sabbath's second album with Dio, Mob Rules was well received by fans, but less so by the critics." To me, "Again produced" at the beginning of a sentence sounds weird, especially when read outloud. Any way to change this?

Reworded.--Cannibaloki 15:57, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

- "he band completed the Heaven and Hell world tour in February 1981, and returned to the studio to begin work on their next album. Again produced by Martin Birch, and recorded at John Lennon's old house in Ascot, England, Black Sabbath's second album with Dio, Mob Rules was well received by fans, but less so by the critics." This needs citations, especially about it being John Lennon's old house.

Reworded and sourced.--Cannibaloki 15:57, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

- "The chart success of the unauthorised live album Live at Last prompted the band to record their first official live album titled Live Evil on the Mob Rules world tour, in Dallas, Texas, San Antonio, Texas, and Seattle, Washington, in May, 1982." How much "chart success" did the "unauthorised" live album have? And by "unauthorised", do you mean that it was a bootleg? Or was it a release the band didn't have any input in?

Reworded and sourced.--Cannibaloki 19:45, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

- "While the project was not initially set to be called Black Sabbath, pressures from the record label forced the group to retain the name." This needs a citation.

Sourced.--Cannibaloki 01:03, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

- Just a comment, I LOVE the Stonehenge story! Great job finding it. :)

--Cannibaloki 01:03, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

- "Following Butler's exit, sole remaining original member Tony Iommi put Black Sabbath on hiatus, and began work on a solo album with keyboardist Geoff Nicholls. While working on new material, the original Black Sabbath lineup were offered a spot at Bob Geldof's Live Aid benefit concert on 13 July 1985. The band agreed, performing a three song set at the Philadelphia show. The event marked the first time the original lineup appeared on stage since 1978, and also featured reunions of The Who, Led Zeppelin and Neil Young with Crosby, Stills, and Nash. Although there were rumours of a full Black Sabbath reunion following Live Aid, Ozzy Osbourne was enjoying success as a solo artist, having released three top 20 albums, and selling nearly ten million albums since his firing from Black Sabbath." This needs to be sourced. Should be very easy to find sources for this though! :)

Reworded and sourced.--Cannibaloki 01:03, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

- "Fenholt gives a detailed account of his time with Iommi/Sabbath in Garry Sharpe-Young's book Sabbath Bloody Sabbath: The Battle For Black Sabbath. Much of what Fenholt says is confirmed in the same book by former Sabbath keyboardist Geoff Nicholls: "Why deny he was there? Just tell the truth. He was a bloody good singer and deserved to be there at the time." Bootlegs of demos from the Fenholt sessions have surfaced under the title Star Of India." The quotes from the book need page citations.

Removed, as I don't have this book.--Cannibaloki 01:03, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

OK, just make sure to re-add this if you ever do find the book. :) It would be great for the article! CarpetCrawler^{message me} 03:44, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

- "Before the release of the new album, Black Sabbath accepted an offer to play six shows at Sun City, South Africa during the apartheid. The band drew criticism from activists and artists involved with Artists United Against Apartheid, who had been boycotting South Africa since 1985. Drummer Bev Bevan refused to play the shows, and was replaced by Terry Chimes, formerly of The Clash.[74]" Does citation 74 cover all of that?

No; added source.--Cannibaloki 01:03, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

- "In November 2007, Dio confirmed that the band have plans to record a new studio album in 2008.[109]" It is 2009 now, so that comment seems a little outdated. "Have plans" should be changed to "recorded"

Reworded.--Cannibaloki 01:03, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

- "Although Black Sabbath have gone through many lineups and stylistic changes, their original sound focused on ominous lyrics and doomy music, often making use of the musical tritone, also called the "devil's interval". Standing in stark contrast to popular music of the early 1970s, Black Sabbath's dark sound was dismissed by rock critics of the era. Much like many of their early heavy metal contemporaries, the band received virtually no airplay on rock radio." Needs citations.

All sourced.--Cannibaloki 01:03, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

I have placed the article on hold until my concerns have been addressed. I realize that there are a lot of things on the above list, so I will not give you only seven days to complete the concerns, I will give you a few weeks to work on my concerns. Please leave me a message on my talkpage when you have addressed my concerns, or if you have any questions. Thank you, great work, and good luck! CarpetCrawler^{message me} 05:07, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

 Doing... Cannibaloki 06:13, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

 Done--Cannibaloki 19:48, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

I'm going to give the article one last lookthrough, and then reach my final decision. :) CarpetCrawler^{message me} 03:44, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

The article looks great, so I will pass it! Great job! CarpetCrawler^{message me} 04:58, 26 April 2009 (UTC)