Talk:Almighty Black P. Stone Nation

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Old comments

"Throughout their history, the BPSN has been crucial players in both domestic and international political events." This makes them sound like they're the UN or the USA. They're a street gang, not international power brokers. Deleted.

"It appears that tension was later induced between the Rangers and the Black Panthers, with evidence suggesting that Jeff Fort's gang were in fact paid by someone to engage in conflict with the Panthers..." Is there proof or evidence to demonstrate an association between the Rangers and the FBI? If not, the winking connection made by linking the word "someone" to the entry on the FBI is non-neutral and unencyclopedic.Thebookpolice 14:04, 22 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

200 members? A typo? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.244.217.132 (talk) 16:04, 21 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I doubt they're in Fargo. man it is like at least 5000 of us. on the south side alone —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.110.66.77 (talk) 18:18, 13 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

No one is chcago wears Bandanas. You making us sound like were bloods or something. The Moes wear basball caps to the left. The gang sign is extending the five with the open palm and hit your chest. Secondly I would like to see more on the Chicago stones, and the formation of the differen areas. Thris the ELrukin Tribe was a different era of BPSN I would like to see more on that. I from Chicago and I'm part and partial of this movement. Whom ever wrote this article is making the nation look at street cornner gangs when the BPSN in chicago is very orangized. —Preceding unsigned comment added by TerrorTown7575 (talk • contribs) 12:22, 24 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Someone with access to the Chicago Crime Commission's "The Gang Book" could really help this article, since that's a citable source.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.135.96.199 (talk • contribs) 22:01, 12 May 2008

Founding

According to evidence presented to a Senate subcommittee chaired by John McClellan of Arkansas in July 1968, the BPS began between 1961 and 1963<ref name=McPherson1>{{cite news |last=McPherson |first=James A. |title=Chicago's Blackstone Rangers (I) |url=http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/196905/blackstone-rangers |work=[[Atlantic Monthly]] |date=May 1969 |accessdate=2008-02-10}}</ref>. A Senate Subcommittee may not have much street cred, but at the time of the committee in 1968, this was recent history. And if you don't believe that, in 1958, as stated previously, Jeff Fort was only 11 years old.— Preceding unsigned comment added by H Bruthzoo (talk • contribs) 18:40, 3 August 2008

No sources establish presence outside Chicago

No sources for the following statement. Associated categories removed. Pleas restore only with the addition of appropriate sources.

Locations

Black P Stones have a heavy presence and strongholds in many American urban areas. Outside of Chicago, members can also be found in New York, Los Angeles, Houston, Atlanta, Miami, Baltimore, Milwaukee, Cleveland, Memphis, Newark, Denver, St.Louis, Minneapolis, and Detroit, as well as smaller pockets throughout the country.^{[citation needed]}

- Tidyup411 (talk) 23:08, 24 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Removing politics

This was a street gang, any civil rights connection came later. Clear political overtone in article.A'nother'un (talk) 03:31, 5 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Self Contradiction

The article lists the P. as standing for both Peace and Pyramid. This needs to be either explained, resolved or removed. Jaydubya93 (talk) 13:28, 6 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was no consensus. A new request with a different target may be more helpful in leading to consensus. --BDD (talk) 18:29, 14 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Almighty Black P. Stone Nation → BPSN – This is racist/bigoted/and probably terrorism, oh and ambigous.--Relisted. ^walk victor falk^talk 06:55, 11 April 2014 (UTC) --Relisted. EdJohnston (talk) 19:45, 3 April 2014 (UTC) Wnicholas70 (talk) 18:09, 26 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Move history:
- 21:35, 14 May 2012‎ Balph Eubank moved page Black P. Stones to Almighty Black P. Stone Nation over redirect (Complete name)

—Wbm1058 (talk) 19:22, 26 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Comment – Template:Organized crime groups in the Americas still lists this page under its former title, the less verbose "Black P. Stones". – Wbm1058 (talk) 20:02, 26 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not saying I'm opposed, but are you really saying "Almighty Black P. Stone Nation" is ambiguous (and "BPSN" isn't)? --BDD (talk) 21:50, 26 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The sources that I can see refer to them as the Rangers and not Nation. Almighty is sometimes used. This page should be named to reflect the actual name that they are called in WP:RS.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 13:23, 27 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Question - Wnicholas70, in order to help us all reach the best decision as quickly as possible, can you pleace clarify the justification for this move? Why do you feel that the name Almighty Black P. Stone Nation is racist, and how would BPSN provide a better title for the group? I am familiar with the group's history and affiliation with black youth and Islam (two groups of people who have experienced a great deal of discrimination in the United States while simultaneously being accused of being racist towards other groups themselves). I am open to the idea of a move, and look forward to hearing your ideas on the subject. I must reserve judgement until clarification is provided though. Thanks Jay Dubya (talk) 15:30, 27 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Question 2 - Theres a couple of issues I'm seeing with establishing a name. One, BPSN is itself ambiguous; among other things it stands for "Bloomsbury Postgraduate Skills Network" (http://courses.grad.ucl.ac.uk/bloomsbury/) and "Bucknell Public Service Network" (http://www.b-link.bucknell.edu/s/754/start-template.aspx?sid=754&gid=1&pgid=2754). The second issue is that reliable sources on this topic, as Wikipedia usually uses the term, are completely unreliable when it comes to gangs and so called "gang intelligence". Its a pseudo-field of non-peer reviewed literature written exclusively by ex-cops and community college "professors". The "research", when there is such a thing and its not just all make believe and rumor mills, is based on data gleaned from arrest reports and criminal informants (also known as lies). When not conducted by a newspaper, law enforcement agencies are the ones funding this "research", and as a result they are heavily invested in the results of what they are funding. So as a result what we get to work with is, for example, sources claiming that the group is Black P. Stone Nation, that BPSN is an acronym of that name, and that the Almighty BPSN is an offshoot led by Wakeeta, Jeff Fort's son (http://www.ngcrc.com/bpsn2003.html). We have other sources claiming BPS, BPSN, Moes and Black Stones are all the same. (http://chicagogangs.org/index.php?pr=BPSN). Then we have the evidence on the street - BPSN is being tagged on walls http://www.instavillage.com/p/680131946610923981_1171417277/ FS is being tagged on walls http://www.flickr.com/photos/chicagocoldwar/9002113564/. My own sources tell me that Prince Wai-Keeta did in fact rename the organization; furthermore since his and Kenyatta's incarceration, violence between various groups within the former aegis of the Nation has accelerated. So in fact you have groups like Stone Terrace, Familia Stones, et al actively vying for territory. The group is fractured, but each considers themself the true Black P. Stone Nation, some of them will self-reference as Almighty Black P. Stone Nation, etc. If we get rid of the Almighty Black P. Stone Nation name how do we address this? Do we create a separate page for each faction? Reliable sources will be a bitch for this. They're notable, but the situation is fluid. Jay Dubya (talk) 19:50, 29 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Wow, I can't believe you looked all of this up for me...My mom's maiden name is Steinert. I agree with you on all of the above, the only thing I could add is that I'm related to Bushells 21 generations ago...but less about me. So the name stays....Wnicholas70 (talk) 20:57, 29 March 2014 (UTC) and yes I love DR.Stranglove.Wnicholas70 (talk) 20:58, 29 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Relister's comment: The discussion so far indicates some support for changing the name, though not to BPSN. The former name was Black P. Stones. Something like that might be accepted, but only if people endorse that specifically. If seven more days runs out and there are no further comments, the move will probably fail. EdJohnston (talk) 19:45, 3 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Move back to the former title Black P. Stones. Lose the "Almighty" and "Nation" – Wbm1058 (talk) 21:19, 3 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Question why is it "racist/bigoted/terrorism"? ^walk victor falk^talk 22:10, 8 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Move to Black P. Stone Nation, a common name for it according to sources. No objection to simply Black P. Stones if others prefer. Dicklyon (talk) 00:22, 12 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Hi, guess I'm slow today

"affiliation with black youth and Islam"...I gleaned this from above, and my basis is The Plan (Washington, D.C.). One or the other...Wnicholas70 (talk) 15:34, 27 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Should we still delete the plan?

Not sure, looks like Christ myth theory...blood(what?) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wnicholas70 (talk • contribs) 21:00, 29 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Out of date link

Link 1 in the notes is broken and leads to page which is a notice that the information has moved without linking the specific page. I could not find the specific document to which the note refers. If that document can not be found it may be beneficial to remove that link and reorder the citations on the page or use a different source? Sconosciute (talk) 04:43, 18 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed Used an archived version instead. Stickee (talk) 23:08, 13 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]