Talk:Black Methodism in the United States

List organization by "name groups"?

Does the current organization of the list by "name groups" make sense? The current list is essentially sorted alphabetically (then by state, then by city?) Are "name groups" significant in AME? If not, then reorganizing by geography (by state first) would make more sense. --doncram 19:12, 24 May 2016 (UTC)

I agree that sorting by "name groups" is a bit arbitrary. What do you think of a organizing this into a sortable table, for example here? This way, it's easy to allow the reader to sort the table as they wish. This idea would have columns "Church name", "State", "City" (others?). +mt 21:04, 24 May 2016 (UTC)

Hi, User:Mwtoews. It seems this list-article was started in 2007 as an alphabetical list of just 4 churches. It was in this edit by User:Clariosophic that "Allen" etc. formatting was added, as a small change, and those labels later became enshrined as "name groups" by evolution. I don't think that a "name group" is a thing, and we can sort it into different order. But it would be nice for the lede perhaps, to have a discussion of the common names, if we could figure out what they refer to.

Sure, about changing this to a sortable table.

Perhaps List of Methodist churches in the United States is more comparable than the list of U.S. states, though. That list is in sort of draft form, not finished, as you can see from comparing upper vs. lower sections. I will edit there some, soon (so watchlist it?), and in fact it could cost me a lot of time to develop. It is okay by me that it, with its rows default-sorted by state (then church name, or then city?) may be designed to include rows for all the AME churches here. Duplication is okay, although it does suggest that once these both are "done" that updating may not be perfect in ensuring consistency thereafter. Its columns are: Church, Image, "Dates", Location, State & city, Description. Another comparable list is List of United States federal courthouses, which has a column "Named for".

A question is how many of the AME churches currently listed here really are notable, deserving of a row in a table. (In the List of Methodist churches in the United States, almost all entries certainly are "list-item-notable, as it was started from NRHP-listed ones and only has a few others added. One could proceed by starting with a list of the NRHP-listed ones here, too. Or one could proceed developing a table out of these AME ones here, anyhow. Mwtoews, what would you like to do? --doncram 02:48, 25 May 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for finding better examples of tables used for other lists, as they provide good examples of sortable tables that could be used here. Probably have a individual columns for "State", "City" (and not "State & city"), and keep one whole table for the US. As for the notability of the existing content, it's never fun to remove items, but it should probably be done. A full directory of AME Churches should be maintained elsewhere. +mt 23:55, 1 June 2016 (UTC)

I agree that one table should suffice (not split into separate tables by state) for this list, as there are not very many entries per state.

Not arguing, just discussing, about the columns to have (and this is a more general issue about similar tables elsewhere): If it is ordered by state, then city, then name of church, I don't think it is necessary to divide location information into separate columns for city and for state. The only likely sort to be done by a reader would be to sort by name in order to put the name groups together or to look up one in particular (besides by using simple search on page function from browser). "Reload" using your browser would bring it back into state then city order (although reader might not know that will work). The only real "enhancement" provided by having separate columns for city and state would be to allow one to get it into city-sorted order, i.e. to put the Columbia SC, Columbia MO, and Columbus GA ones together...which doesn't seem helpful to me. Appearance-wise, having one location column will look better, will not waste white-space, will allow it all to be seen better with wider columns for descriptions. So I prefer to stick with one location column. I wonder if any guidance to the reader can be conveyed about this, besides discussing it here. --doncram 17:56, 15 June 2016 (UTC)

AME vs. AME Zion

Perhaps one column should be used to allow sorting by African Methodist Episcopal Zion Church vs. African Methodist Episcopal Church. Or this might be so important a distinction as to require separation into two tables on one page, or to require two separate list-article pages, linked to each other. If kept on one page, the lede needs to explain about the two churches and to state explicitly (and justify why?) they're being covered together. --doncram 18:01, 15 June 2016 (UTC)

Doubts

At List of Methodist churches in the United States#this list vs. separate List of AME and AME Zion ones I express some doubts about table-izing here. It's too much work involved in creating the table rows, and then it would be too much work in maintaining (or worse seeing things go to pot), to make this into a list table duplicative of the List of Methodist churches in the United States. Comment here or there. --doncram 14:17, 17 June 2016 (UTC)

Names to explain

What are the following, common in AME church names, about?

• 1.1 Adams
• 1.2 Allen --> probably about Richard Allen, who founded the AME church in 1816. And/or Sarah Allen who was known as its "founding mother".
• 1.3 Baber
• 1.4 Bethel
• 1.5 Brown --> perhaps named for Morris Brown, 2nd AME bishop (after Turner). Morris Brown College named for him.
• 1.6 Bryant
• 1.7 Brookins
• 1.8 Byrd
• 1.9 Campbell
• 1.10 Christ
• 1.11 Emanuel
• 1.12 Emmanuel
• 1.13 Grant --> speculation: named for Ulysses S. Grant???
• 1.14 Jericho
• 1.15 Johnson
• 1.16 Joshua
• 1.17 Mt. Olive
• 1.18 Mt. Pisgah
• 1.19 Mount Vernon
• 1.20 Mt. Zion
• 1.21 Olive
• 1.22 Quinn --> William Paul Quinn, 4th bishop
• 1.23 Reid
• 1.24 Rue
• 1.25 Saint Philip
• 1.26 St. John
• 1.27 St. James
• 1.28 St. Joseph
• 1.29 St. Mark
• 1.30 St. Matthew
• 1.31 St. Peter
• 1.32 St. Paul
• 1.33 St. Stephen
• 1.34 Salter's
• 1.35 Tabernacle
• 1.36 Thomas --seems like not a common name for AME churches:
  • name for Thomas Memorial AME Zion Church of Watertown NY probably is explained in its NRHP nomination document (linked but not currently readable by me).
  • Thomas Chapel AME Zion Church's name seems to have evolved from predecessor "Tom's Chapel", named for one of its builders
• 1.37 Turner -> probably about Henry McNeal Turner, who was for returning to Africa. And/or for his 1st wife Eliza Turner.
• 1.38 Wade
• 1.39 Ward
• 1.40 Wesley
• 1.41 Williams
• 1.42 Woodlawn
• 1.43 Zion

Insert notes above as we get any ideas... --doncram 02:48, 25 May 2016 (UTC)