Talk:Big Freedia/Archive 1
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| Archive 1 |
Pronoun Use
As this article is biographical, and the subject's biological and legal sex is male, I have enforced consistency in the pronoun use. Wikipedia is not a political platform, nor is content of articles regarding public persons subject to the preferences of the subjects. - (Batmanhatguy) 16:27, 13 March 2017 (EDT)
Unsourced/biased material
I'm new here, but it seems this article has some unsourced or biased material. How should this be dealt with? Mbarchak (talk) 05:25, 30 November 2012 (UTC)
Pronoun gender
It seems clear from quotations that Big Freedia is a "she" and not a "he." Should this be changed? ynadji (talk) Tue Jan 22 02:00:14 EST 2013 —Preceding undated comment added 07:00, 22 January 2013 (UTC) At the very least the pronoun should be consistent. The fact that in the same paragraph this individual is referred to both as he and she is extremely confusing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.118.92.242 (talk) 19:12, 5 August 2013 (UTC)
Considering that "Big Freedia has claimed he is a male this article should reflect a scientific basis for using pronouns such as "he" or "she". To some it might seem important to refer to someone by the gender they prefer to be called doing so only makes sense on a personal level. Wikipedia is considered a factual website, where one can go and get factual information. Not only does referencing him as her defy Big Freedia's own belief of himself but it defies scientific facts learned thru science and DNA. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 162.250.81.17 (talk) 20:04, 30 March 2016 (UTC)
That's not how DNA works. Excalibre (talk) 21:15, 28 January 2017 (UTC)
He/She
No disrespect, but why is the article referring to Freedia as female, while "she" is really a "he." He's not transgender, he's a cross dresser.
- You got a source for that? Because we can only go by what the sources say. And particularly when it comes to sensitive issues like gender, we have to respect the subject's wishes. If no one can provide a source quoting Freedia saying "I'm a dude" (effectively), it should stay as it is. Robofish (talk) 22:18, 22 July 2013 (UTC)
- “I am not transgendered; I am just a gay male,” says Freedia, on the front patio of the Country Club clothing-optional pool in the Bywater, one recent hot spring day. In the past, Freedia was often packaged with fellow gay bounce artist and collaborator Sissy Nobby, as well as Freedia’s mentor, the transsexual Katey Red. Freedia and Katey attended Cohen High School together and Freedia started her career backing Katey. “But I am not Katey Red,” says Freedia. “I wear women’s hair and carry a purse, but I am a man. I answer to either ‘he’ or ‘she.’” While Freedia’s exoticism is engrossing and an easy selling point, she is a master New Orleans showman with the golden capability to move huge crowds. [1] So while he answers to both pronouns, he considers himself a male. DrBat (talk) 02:32, 6 August 2013 (UTC)
- It's complicated, but there's a difference between being male and preferring male pronouns. The quotation above simply says that Big Freedia is comfortable with either pronoun, but a different (more recent) article says this: "Whatever makes my fans comfortable—to be able to call me "he" or "she,"—I'll allow. I let them have the freedom to choose either one. I'm more than sure that's the same way they feel on Drag Race. A lot of people just can't accept the fact of calling a man "she." I totally understand that, and it's never offensive to me, because I was born a man, my preferred pronoun is she—but it's not a big thing to me." [2] (emphasis mine). I think that interview makes it pretty clear that she, despite identifying as male, prefers female pronouns. Granted she states that it's "not a big thing", but if the standard is the person's stated preference, then female pronouns are pretty clearly the correct choice. I may update this page with the above quote in addition to the other quote, depending on response here. The Human Spellchecker (talk) 04:05, 22 September 2013 (UTC)
- "Though gay and proud, Big Freedia asserts that her (Freedia is a he but uses the feminine pronoun for her stage persona)..." http://www.bigfreedia.com/bio/ and almost elusively throughout her own website, "She/her" pronouns are used. -Andrew c [talk] 14:23, 29 September 2013 (UTC)
- It's complicated, but there's a difference between being male and preferring male pronouns. The quotation above simply says that Big Freedia is comfortable with either pronoun, but a different (more recent) article says this: "Whatever makes my fans comfortable—to be able to call me "he" or "she,"—I'll allow. I let them have the freedom to choose either one. I'm more than sure that's the same way they feel on Drag Race. A lot of people just can't accept the fact of calling a man "she." I totally understand that, and it's never offensive to me, because I was born a man, my preferred pronoun is she—but it's not a big thing to me." [2] (emphasis mine). I think that interview makes it pretty clear that she, despite identifying as male, prefers female pronouns. Granted she states that it's "not a big thing", but if the standard is the person's stated preference, then female pronouns are pretty clearly the correct choice. I may update this page with the above quote in addition to the other quote, depending on response here. The Human Spellchecker (talk) 04:05, 22 September 2013 (UTC)
- “I am not transgendered; I am just a gay male,” says Freedia, on the front patio of the Country Club clothing-optional pool in the Bywater, one recent hot spring day. In the past, Freedia was often packaged with fellow gay bounce artist and collaborator Sissy Nobby, as well as Freedia’s mentor, the transsexual Katey Red. Freedia and Katey attended Cohen High School together and Freedia started her career backing Katey. “But I am not Katey Red,” says Freedia. “I wear women’s hair and carry a purse, but I am a man. I answer to either ‘he’ or ‘she.’” While Freedia’s exoticism is engrossing and an easy selling point, she is a master New Orleans showman with the golden capability to move huge crowds. [1] So while he answers to both pronouns, he considers himself a male. DrBat (talk) 02:32, 6 August 2013 (UTC)
Guys listen he's a transvestite http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transvestism , anyways the way he acts isn't gay, or transgendered it's Transvestism. - Cod101wiiowenjaquith.
It's pretty clear in the bounce / sissy rap community that gender pronouns are fluid and "factually" irrelevant. That being said, the Out.com interview that user The Human Spellchecker cites ([3]) sums up what is equally well known in the community, that "Big Freedia" is a stage persona who deploys, and is universally referred to by, a female pronoun. "(Freedia, who is about 6 foot 2 and very powerful-looking and dresses in a fashionable but recognizably masculine style, is genetically a man; but neither she nor anyone who knows her uses masculine pronouns to refer to her.)" [4] Since this article is about Big Freedia and not Freddie Ross, all of the gender pronouns in this article need to be changed to "she." Irgreaves1 (talk) 19:13, 16 October 2014 (UTC)
- With regard to gender pronouns, the second bullet point of MOS:IDENTITY clearly outlines how to handle it. The guideline says we
"give precedence to self-designation as reported in the most up-to-date reliable sources, even when it doesn't match what's most common in reliable sources. When a person's gender self-designation may come as a surprise to readers, explain it without overemphasis on first occurrence in an article. Any person whose gender might be questioned should be referred to by the pronouns, possessive adjectives, and gendered nouns (for example "man/woman", "waiter/waitress", "chairman/chairwoman") that reflect that person's latest expressed gender self-identification. This applies in references to any phase of that person's life, unless the subject has indicated a preference otherwise.
Although Big Freedia has said in multiple reliable sources that doesn't mind what pronouns her fans use, her preference is female pronouns. So it is precisely that preference, per MOS:IDENTITY, that determines what editors should use in this article. In her 2013 interview with Out, Big Freedia said, "my preferred pronoun is she". In 2015, BF was asked in an interview to comment about how "Everyone either knows (or quickly learns) to use the feminine pronoun when referring to you." These sources are included in the article. If more recent reliable sources ever show that she has specifically changed that preference to "he", then it can be changed. Lootbrewed (talk) 03:06, 4 September 2015 (UTC) 07:51, 4 September 2015 (UTC)
So please do it. It still leaves it ambiguous if Freedia is a male transvestite or a masculine female. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.116.126.137 (talk) 21:30, 29 October 2015 (UTC)
Big Freedia appeared on Season 6, Ep 3 of Nailed It! Time to update the filmography.
- The two currently cited sources for Freedia's pronouns DO NOT cite she/her as Freedia's preferred pronouns. In one, the author says Freedia's pronouns are "fluid", and the writer chose she/her. In the other, Freedia says,
Do you feel like you’ve been pressured to gender yourself?
Yeah, definitely. But they can’t put me in a box, child. I don’t let ‘em. I get this question every interview: “What is your preferred pronoun?” and all of that. I’m me. That’s my preferred pronoun. I tell people all the time, it don’t matter if you call me “he,” “she,” “it,” whatever. I know who I am and that’s all that matters.
- I'm not sure which pronouns to use in the article, but I'm changing the text that misrepresents these two sources. - CorbieVreccan ☊ ☼ 18:02, 22 March 2022 (UTC)
- OK, The sources where Freedia expressed a preference for she/her were out of date. The most recent ones are for "fluid" or "sick of having to pick a pronoun". In other articles like this, we have avoided pronouns all together. I just did that in the edits I made, for the most part. I left some she/hers for work during the time when that was Freedia's preference, and left, or used, he/him for when Freedia was still going by Freddie. We have to be a bit more nuanced in the articles where people don't want one simple choice, yet we don't want to confuse the average reader. But we've figured it out on other articles; we can do it respectfully here. Best, - CorbieVreccan ☊ ☼ 18:26, 22 March 2022 (UTC)