Talk:Biewer Terrier (dog)

Untitled

Link to Biewer Club of America requires password.Wickerjk 23:28, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Problems

The Biewer Terrier is a mixed breed as where the Biewer a La Pom Pon is a purebred from Germany as where the Biewer Terrier is a mix breed started in America —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.96.154.123 (talk) 08:02, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

The spread to other countries is uncertain. If anyone knows when it spread to other countries go ahead and add it, but you will find that in other countries it isn't viewed as a "Biewer terrier", it is viewed as a disqualified Yorkshire Terrier. Also note: Saying that is has worked its way into the hearts of many in America is a peacock term and I am for one, SICK of having that in the Reference section. Please, pull your head out of your butt and stop changing it back. The Biewer Terrier is simply a disqualified colored Yorkshire terrier, NOT ITS OWN BREED. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rienil (talk • contribs) 23:14, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

Who are you Rienil that you feel you are an authority on the Biewer Terrier? The information you continually add is false and that of your personal opinion with no factual foundation. If you want to write about Parti Yorkies, do so on the Yorkshire Terrier page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sorekraut (talk • contribs) 03:19, 10 December 2009 (UTC)

I am obviously someone smarter in dog genetics than you if you honestly believe that the Biewer terrier is a separate breed from the Yorkshire terrier simply because it has the piebald trait. you are being an idiot - one not willing to realize piebald does not make a dog special unless it was purposely bred to have that trait. I am guessing you are one of those illogical idiots who say that the "Panda" Shepherd is a "new breed" simply because it has the pied trait. Do research. Oh, and in case you really ARE that silly - chocolate lab retrievers are simply black retrievers with a dilute gene. LRN2GENETICS and stop fighting with someone who is obviously better educated than you and trying to be impartial in this wikipage. In the end, this "breed" - as there is no true research backing it up on having it be any different from a regular Yorkshire Terrier ASIDE FROM THE PIEBALD TRAIT (please read that until you understand), it is not anything special. Simply odd. Which inlays the debate of whether it is a new breed or not. Mars Veterinary Inc. does not count - they specialize in HEALTH through genetics, not genetics in general. They have no research backing up their claim other than "Yep, it is! Yay!". The dogchannel site? They have information on Labradoodles - ANOTHER mutt that is not a purebred (while there are people in Australia working hard to have it breed true and have specific traits so on and so forth) - can be found on the site. A MALTIPOO set of information is on there. There are simply no unbiased sources that can honestly say that the Biewer is different from a Yorkie, which is why the page is probably going to be deleted until such a time arises. It may not be for a VERY long time. In the PRESENT time I am going by the FACTS, not my beliefs, not what I wish or hope simply what has been proven. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rienil (talk • contribs) 05:59, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

(There is no such thing as a Biewer a la Pom Pon. This is a made up name by a few breeders. The Biewer Terrier is a purebred dog of the companion group. http://www.wisdompanelpro.com/breedinfo/breedsdetected.html)

The Biewer seems to have several names, Biewer Terrier, Biewer Yorkshire Terrier and Biewer Yorkshire a la Pom Pon, depending on the club.

( There is only one club that has the backing and support of Mrs. Biewer and that is the BTCA. Inc. She says she understands why the Yorkshire was dropped, but not to drop the Terrier because that is what the dog is. The a la Pom Pon was thrown on for fun and means nothing.)

Does it matter when it came to the US? Should spread to other countries be dated as well?

The origin of the breed was as a prohibited color variant of the Yorkshire Terrier (large white spots.)

"Master parents" is not a dog term that I have heard or find anywhere else. I assumed it meant the foundation stock sire and dam until I saw the pictures on the websites of "Darling von Friedheck" and "Fru Fru von Friedheck", sire and dam of the piebald dog, and they were normally-coloured Yorkshires, no white. The normally-coloured dogs were the "world youth winners in 1981", not the piebald version.

"World youth winners in 1981" refers to a puppy title but from what show-giving body is not clear. The VDH (German Kennel Club) says the title was first offered in 2004. ("Youth" = puppy; "youth" in English refers to humans, which makes it even more confusing.)

"In 1989 the Biewer Yorkshire was accepted as its own breed with the ACH German e.V." ??? The ACH e.V. (Allgemeiner Club der Hundefreunde Deutschland e.V. online) was founded 1962. I find no listing for the Biewer there, and white is not allowed on their Yorkshire Terriers.

I find another club, ACH-L e.V. (Allgemeiner Club der Hundefreunde und Liebhaber e.V. online) that lists the Biewer, but it seems to date from 2003.

I find other clubs, and notice that there are variations in the standards, all of which are copyrighted anyway.

(The revised standard the BTCA uses is the only accepted standard, signed by Mrs. Biewer.)

I will correct/remove these until a Biewer expert (or someone who speaks better German) can clarify these items. --Hafwyn (talk) 01:56, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

I am German. The Biewer has become a separat breed in Germany, but many breeders who are in other clubs than the VDH mix normal black and tan and blue and tan Yorkies with it, to have more joy with Yorkies of all colors . Others only have pure bred Biewer Terriers. The breed is not yet accepted by the VDH, but the FCI allows them at dog exhibitions. Look for [Biewer Terrier] in the German Wikipedia.

Origin of Biewer and Parti-Color Yorkshire Terrier

Geo-Science-International (talk) 12:29, 9 November 2016 (UTC)

References

comments

do we know the breeders' names? Beyond Mr. and Mrs.? Should have more information in this. and some sources. What are these dogs used for? What are their health issues? Auntieruth55 (talk) 23:24, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

The Biewer Yorkie is used for dog-walk, cuddeling and having fun like all other Yorkies.

Geo-Science-International (talk) 12:40, 9 November 2016 (UTC)

This article needs to be restored

This article was deleted and made into a redirect to Yorkshire Terrier way back in 2009, however various clubs have since recognized Biewer as separate breed and now AKC has just recognized it which I think puts it over the top for WP:NOTABLE. The version of this article at the time of deletion was not to currrent WP standards so it needs a lot of TLC from editors who understand the field in order to restore it and bring it up to date. Sparkie82 (t•c) 03:05, 10 January 2021 (UTC)

Ref Biewer Terrier at AKC: [1] Sparkie82 (t•c) 03:34, 10 January 2021 (UTC)

Hello, Sparkie82, whilst ordinarily I would presume a breed to be notable if it has been recognised by a major national kennel like the AKC, I have searched everywhere I know of and cannot find any reliable secondary sources on these dogs, the AKC webpage is obviously a primary source.

Unless we can find significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject, this article will fall short of WP:GNG and so should not be recreated. Kind regards, Cavalryman (talk) 08:24, 10 January 2021 (UTC).

CBS News reported it on one their national newcasts, which is what brought me to this article. I know absolutely nothing about the topic, but I get the sense that a new dog breed is something that's a big deal in those circles. Perhaps we just need to wait for the news to propagate to more sources. Wikipedia:Notability_(breeds) may also be helpful. Since I know nothing about this, I'm just going to step away and let those who are more familial with the topic discuss it. However, because this is a relatively recent event, I'd suggest keeping the discussion open for some time before trying to form a consensus. Sparkie82 (t•c) 03:36, 14 January 2021 (UTC)

Biewers have been recognised by a number of Kennel Clubs in Europe for a while now, Russian Kennel Club for example. They are indeed a different breed, although young, but they differ in coat type, structure and colour, body shape and personality. I support article restoration.--LoraxJr 18:50, 25 January 2021 (UTC)

Hello LoraxJr, if the sources existed I would support the article’s restoration too, but I cannot find any. Do you have any? Kennel clubs aren’t independent secondary sources so cannot be used to meet the WP:GNG. Kind regards, Cavalryman (talk) 20:18, 25 January 2021 (UTC).

Cavalryman I have read in a few discussions your comments about kennel clubs being considered as a reliable source on things such as breed standards and general characteristics. Biewers are recognised by for example Russian Kynological Federation which is a member of FCI. Here is the breed standard: http://rkf.com.ru/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/biver-terer.pdf --LoraxJr 21:43, 26 January 2021 (UTC)

LoraxJr, I am sure there is an AKC standard also, but that still doesn’t mean the article meets WP:GNG which states If a topic has received significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject, it is presumed to be suitable for a stand-alone article or list. Kennel clubs are not independent of the subject so cannot be used to establish notability for a stand alone article. Cavalryman (talk) 22:09, 26 January 2021 (UTC).

Ok, I think I got it now. Makes life really difficult ;) LoraxJr 12:20, 27 January 2021 (UTC)

Despite your wink ;) ...

I know I said I was going plead ignorance and step away from this discussion, but there are plenty of other sources besides the CBS News story that I had mentioned above. [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7] [8] [9] [10] and many, many more... Sparkie82 (t•c) 00:09, 7 March 2021 (UTC)

Sparkie82, if the sources exist to meet GNG then I fully support the page’s restoration. I will observe though, of the English language sources (I have not attempted to assess the Spanish ones) only the Voice of America story appears to be both reliable and providing SIGCOV. Kind regards, Cavalryman (talk) 07:32, 7 March 2021 (UTC).

I don't know what the WP dog breed project requires for an article for a new breed, but this one has multiple, national news sources, as well as many local news sources, as well as multiple expert sources (the clubs and enthusiasts journals). But go ahead and take your time, let others weigh in. We wouldn't want to do anything drastic here. Sparkie82 (t•c) 02:12, 10 March 2021 (UTC)

colored yorkshire terrier

For the Fans of colored yorkshire terrier: There was already an Oil Painting almost white Yorkshire terrier dated year 1885, please see: http://www.hamsheregallery.co.uk/stock.php?id=2595

It was also known that ernest hemingway's grandfather had a white yorkshire terrier named Tassel. Trekarraz (talk) 16:32, 13 March 2023 (UTC)