Jump to content

Talk:Nigerian Civil War

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
(Redirected from Talk:Biafran War)

How do we add alternates sources?

[edit]

The Korieh reference links to the official version, which is a paid-for copy. It would be useful to include a link to the author's free version, at https://epublications.marquette.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1145&context=hist_fac Bendel boy (talk) 09:06, 20 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

April 2023

[edit]

@Kunkuru: I am not going to reply to the thread on my talk page because your grievance is with the content in this article, not an inquiry about myself. The onus is on you to explain beyond an edit summary as to why the claim is unsubstantiated. To make sure we are on the same page, the claim is not that it is widely accepted that there was a genocide in Biafra. The claim is that an NGO, the International Committee on the Investigation of Crimes of Genocide, stated that they believed there was a genocide in Biafra. So what did you want me to know? You wrote:


Your first paragraph is conceding to my point that your new primary source, the NYT article, does not substantiated your change in wording to "Biafra made a formal complaint of genocide against Igbos to the International Committee on the Investigation of Crimes of Genocide, which concluded that there wasn't evidence of a genocide nor starvation."

Your point that Korieh self-referenced in their article is fair. We should definitely look into their original source or discard their citation altogether since it may be dubious. So why not use the source you provided that notes the gap in Korieh's work?

On page 9 the author writes, "The Senegalese and Tanzanian presidents (Leopold Senghor and Julius Nyerere) also labelled the Nigerian policy as 'genocide', though it should be noted that most African governments opposed the Biafran move to secede." And what does the citation next to it say?

'Pressure on Lagos to Accept Ceasefire', The Times, 10 April 1968. In 1968, the 'International Committee for the Study of the Crimes of Genocide', a Paris-based unofficial organisation of lawyers from several countries, determined that genocide was occurring in Nigeria. Cronje, The world and Nigeria, pp. 277–8.

So the claim that one organisation, the International Committee for the Study of the Crimes of Genocide, believed there was a genocide in Biafra, is also substantiated in the counter source you gave.

If you think this Wikipedia article is implying that there is a general acceptance that there was a genocide in Biafra, which is what I think your actual grievance is, then provide counter sources and add a new sentence to the article, much like how the author of your counter source did. Do not change the words of an organisation to your own. Yue🌙 20:31, 20 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support for coup of 15 January 1966

[edit]

Regarding this change: Special:Diff/1160724824/1160803356. Patrick Anwunah, former Quartermaster-General and Chief of Logistics at Biafran Defense headquarters, writes in his 2007 memoirs cited in the References that it was not only northerners and westerners who saw the coup as benefiting the Igbo. Some Igbo/southerners also saw the coup this way:

p. 112: "Unfortunately as well, illiterate southern traders in the North created a lot of provocation by jubilating over the murder of politicians and military officers in the Coup of 15 January 1966".

p. 130: "Unfortunately, many southern or Igbo traders in the North and East seemed to have liked the Coup of 15 January 1966 whilst at the same time many northerners seemed to have liked the counter-coup revenge and the pogrom."

p. 328: "The Igbos failed as a people to disassociate themselves from the bloody killings of 15 January 1966. What the Igbos did or failed to do, fuelled the fears and suspicions that all Igbos supported the Coup of 15 January 1966. In actual fact, some Igbos liked the coup whilst others did not."

Dieter.Meinertzhagen (talk) 22:08, 18 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The Prof. Murray Last quotation in the "Persecution of Igbo" section of the article also records the support of some Igbo for the coup of 15 January 1966.
Dieter.Meinertzhagen (talk) 22:21, 18 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support, and Mercenaries

[edit]

Why were the nations that supported either side removed from the table and the flags of the various mercenaries nationalities removed? I can see no reason to remove this information other than possibly a bias. 83.77.119.21 (talk) 13:57, 12 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The "supported by" nations were removed from the infobox in this edit in accordance with this RfC. From what I have seen of the editor's work, the editor is very scrupulous and I very much doubt that they are motivated by bias.
The flags of the various mercenary nationalities were removed starting in a series of edits starting here. The editor (@Helioz9:) would be better able to explain why than I can, but if I understand their intent correctly, it is that where the mercenaries came from, or where they lived when they weren't on a mercenary contract, is irrelevant; what matters is that they were fighting for Biafra at the time of the war.
Dieter.Meinertzhagen (talk) 19:16, 12 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
A flag indicating their respective nationalities is far more useful than the flag of Biafra for them, they were never citizens of Biafra in any case. 83.78.32.184 (talk) 23:28, 13 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The RfC notes that the infobox can still feature the "Supported By" section if there is consensus to do so. I believe it is necessary to list the supporters of the war since most reliable sources discuss the significant impact of foreign countries involved in the war. My rationale behind listing the Biafran flags on the mercenaries was the fact that they were literally enlisted in the Biafran military (despite being described as "mercenaries"). Some flew for the Biafran Air force (such as Jan Zumbach and Carl Gustaf von Rosen) and some commanded the Biafran 4th Commando Brigade. Helioz9 (talk) 09:51, 10 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The infobox is for belligerents. Let's not return this infobox to the literal meme that it used to be. Mikrobølgeovn (talk) 20:59, 20 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Very large infobox list of "Commanders and leaders"

[edit]

The infobox list of "Commanders and leaders" has become very large (94 Nigerian, 8 Biafran) and I would like to reduce its size. I am skeptical that all of those listed were significant commanders or leaders in the war, for example the Nigerian enlisted man Sgt. Major Adamu Pankshin or the twelve Nigerian junior officers (four lieutenants, eight captains). Even some of the more senior figures seem unlikely to have been important commanders or leaders. For example, "Deputy Inspector General Fagbola" is included as a member of the Nigerian Supreme Military Council; this appears to be Deputy Inspector General of Police Theophilus Agboola Fagbola. It is not obvious to me that the Deputy Inspector General of Police would automatically be a significant wartime commander or leader.

The most drastic edit would be to follow MOS:INFOBOXPURPOSE literally: "The purpose of an infobox is to summarize, but not supplant, the key facts that appear in an article." In this case I would remove everyone from the "Commanders and leaders" list who does not appear in the article. This would leave three of the current eight Biafrans:

  • Chukwuemeka Odumegwu Ojukwu
  • Philip Effiong
  • Victor Banjo

and six of the current ninety-four Nigerians:

  • Yakubu Gowon
  • Brigadier Emmanuel Ikwue
  • Colonel Murtala Ramat Mohammed
  • Colonel Olusegun Obasanjo
  • Brigadier Benjamin Adesanya Adekunle
  • Major Theophilus Danjuma

Incidentally, although Brigadier Ikwue is mentioned in the article in the lead-up to the war, he is not mentioned as playing a significant part in the war itself so I suggest he should leave the list also, leaving five Nigerian leaders and commanders.

A less drastic edit would be to remove all entries with only a military rank and last name (e.g. Major Way) on the grounds that the entries are too ambiguous to be useful, except I suppose the aforementioned Deputy Inspector General Fagbola. This would remove sixteen of the 94 Nigerian entries (two lieutenant colonels, eight majors, three captains, three lieutenants).

Another less drastic edit would be to remove the thirteen junior officers and enlisted from the list (eight captains, four lieutenants, one enlisted, all Nigerian).

If no one objects I will carry out the most drastic edit in two weeks, on September 5. If this edit would be too draconian, please suggest an alternative.

Thank you.

Dieter.Meinertzhagen (talk) 04:50, 23 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Your 'drastic edit' seems the most reasonable. Bendel boy (talk) 08:42, 30 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Done.
Dieter.Meinertzhagen (talk) 18:56, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hello Kryst4lyf:

Please, in light of the comments above, why did you restore the very long list of Federal officers and officials into the infobox as "Commanders and leaders"?

Thanks,

Dieter.Meinertzhagen (talk) 02:19, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I vote for revert before we start listing every private who took part! Bendel boy (talk) 16:05, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Nigerian_Civil_War&oldid=1258413821"