Talk:Betty Smith

	Biography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
	This article is supported by the arts and entertainment work group.

Women's History Mid‑importance

	History portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Women's History, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Women's history and related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Women's HistoryWikipedia:WikiProject Women's HistoryTemplate:WikiProject Women's HistoryWomen's History articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

New York City Low‑importance

	New York City portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject New York City, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of New York City-related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.New York CityWikipedia:WikiProject New York CityTemplate:WikiProject New York CityNew York City articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Women writers High‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Women writers, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of women writers on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Women writersWikipedia:WikiProject Women writersTemplate:WikiProject Women writersWomen writers articles
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

Untitled

According to this dissertation (see link) written by Carol Siri Johnson © 2003, there are many details left out or inconsistent with what is listed here in Wiki. I am not interested in fixing these myself. Anyone interested in more information on this amazina author, Betty Smith, should read the attached link. And by the way, Joy in the Morning is a wonderful, endearing story.

http://web.njit.edu/~cjohnson/tree/bio/wm.htm 71.127.170.45 (talk) 18:55, 24 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Article lead

The lead should always start with the name Betty Smith, as that is the woman's actual name by marriage and the name she used in her writings and up until her death. The leads of almost all articles on famous women, as well as many men, use the name by which the person is known for. For example, Michelle Obama, Hillary Clinton, Nancy Reagan, Cary Grant, Barbara Stanwyck, Pearl Buck, Patricia Cornwell, and thousands and thousands of others. It would be strikingly odd to have Michelle Obama's lead read "Michelle LaVaughn Robinson (born January 17, 1964), better known as Michelle Obama...." The Betty Smith article should be no different. Betty Smith is name she used and the name she is known by. And despite two subsequent marriages, she kept the surname. — Preceding unsigned comment added by TheGrayLion (talk • contribs) 20:25, 21 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

To my knowledge, no one has a problem with the article starting with "Betty Smith". Here on Wikipedia, we follow the manual of style rather than mimic what is in other articles. The aforementioned stars of the golden age, political figures, writers, etc. are irrelevant to any discussion but their own Betty Smith is not Michelle Obama. I could give examples of others with names given quite a few different ways: Fidel Alejandro Castro Ruz is known by only a portion of that name; Desi Arnaz is first named as Desiderio Alberto Arnaz y de Acha III; John Gielgud is given as Arthur John Gielgud; Claude Rains is actually William Claude Rains; America's sweetheart is first named as Gladys Louise Smith rather than Mary Pickford; we know Ruth Gordon Jones by but a part of that name, etc. None of these are relevant to this discussion. Perhaps the first lead writer put her legal birth name because it seemed more encyclopediac in tone than her nickname, however public, of Betty.

After I read her biography, if I (or another editor) learns that she took the name of either or both of her subsequent husbands, the lead may again be modified.----DiamondRemley39 (talk) 22:06, 21 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Fair enough. And I would most likely agree. I found a source that states she started using the name "Betty" in 1938. As you know, "Betty" and Bettie" are common diminutives for Elizabeth, her actual birth name, though some have raised questions about that. Smith's birth and death certificates may be useful in determining what we need to know. We do, however, need to take into account that official documents, as well as biographies, sometimes do contain mistakes. Interesting that the lead for Mary Pickford begins with her birth name, while that for Cary Grant does not. — Preceding unsigned comment added by TheGrayLion (talk • contribs) 22:48, 21 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Yes. Her biography states that her official birth name was something other than what we have here, but this may have been a mistake on the midwife's part. I'll pick it up again sometime (soon), I hope, and get more info. And Wikipedia is full of debates about this sort of thing -- people (myself included) spend too long debating the little things!--DiamondRemley39 (talk) 22:58, 21 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Improvements

Shall we make a list of ways to improve this article now that the lead is in shape? :) The article as it is now is unworthy of one of the most important fiction authors of the last century. I would like to see it get at least "good article" status. Ahem, @TheGrayLion:
There is scant information on:
*her middle two books
*her writing career outside of novels and plays
*awards won or nominated
*her personal life
*her legacy
What else is missing?
--DiamondRemley39 (talk) 23:09, 21 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I agree. The article needs improvement. To add to your list, there's little information about her playwriting endeavors, which were quite extensive. Smith's NYT obit has some interesting tidbits, which I'll look to add. Carol Siri Johnson's dissertation also contains pertinent information that may be useful to more fully flesh out Smith's life. But I don't have the recently released biography. Nevertheless, I'll see what I can do. Yet there's only so much time, plus there's a couple of other articles I've been intending to work on and have neglected to do so. — Preceding unsigned comment added by TheGrayLion (talk • contribs) 18:43, 23 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Hopwood Award

This article previously cited the Hopwood Award coming "with the award, Smith received either $1,000 or $1,500 sources differ..." While the Obituary in the New York Times cites the awards as $1,500, biographers Yow and Siri Johnson both cite the Hopwood sum as $1,000 (Yow, page 63; Johnson, page 59). Added to The Michigan Daily in 1931, which cites $1,000, it is pretty clear that the Times was in error and pointing out the differing sources is unnecessary. Mx942 (talk) 20:56, 23 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]