Talk:Bertha of Hereford

	Biography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
	An editor has requested that an image or photograph be added to this article.

Herefordshire Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Herefordshire, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Herefordshire on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.HerefordshireWikipedia:WikiProject HerefordshireTemplate:WikiProject HerefordshireHerefordshire articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Middle Ages Low‑importance

	Middle Ages portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Middle Ages, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the Middle Ages on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Middle AgesWikipedia:WikiProject Middle AgesTemplate:WikiProject Middle AgesMiddle Ages articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Women's History Low‑importance

	History portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Women's History, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Women's history and related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Women's HistoryWikipedia:WikiProject Women's HistoryTemplate:WikiProject Women's HistoryWomen's History articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

References

I would hesitate to give Cawley's "Medieval Lands" as a reference, especially his Briouse section, which is full of important errors. (Eg giving Reginald as a son of William (II) de Braose.

A reference which could replace it in both places is the more reliable Complete Peerage, Vol 1, "Abergavenny"

Otherwise I would say the article is a good job.

--Doug (talk) 14:59, 1 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Other Points

that you might like to consider.

1. Born in Gloucester?? This sort of detail appears on many genealogical sites with nothing to justify it. It's not the sort of information that got recorded for many medieval figures. Without a specific reference I would exclude it.

2. Aenor FitzJudael - the name. I would prefer Aenor, daughter of Judael of Totnes. The name "FitzJudael" is made-up. It does not occur in sources - and Fitz means "son of".

--Doug (talk) 15:15, 1 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I followed your advise. How is it now? I added a bit to the Maud de Braose article as well--jeanne (talk) 15:52, 1 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

They both look OK to me at the moment. --Doug (talk) 17:43, 1 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Descendant of Lady Godiva?

I have traced Bertha's maternal line directly to Edith, daughter of Elfgar, Earl of Mercia. Some historians believe Lady Godiva was Elfgar's mother while others believe her to have been his stepmother. What do you think?--jeanne (talk) 12:58, 3 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I think evidence is pretty hazy in this era. For Wikipedia purposes you can quote anything written by a "reputable source" rather than carry out an original evaluation of the evidence.--Doug (talk) 22:42, 3 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Well, once the date of her marriage to Leofric is established, then it will show whether or not she was Elfgar's mother. Yesterday, I created an article on Edith of Mercia, seeing as Wikipedia already had one on King Harold's common-law wife Edith Swan-neck. I mentioned in the article that there is a possibility of Godiva being her grandmother but that historians are not sure as to whether she was Elfgar's mother or stepmother. Until new reliable evidence-which I can source- emerges, it'll have to remain like that.--jeanne (talk) 07:06, 4 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I personally believe that the scanty evidence available points to Godiva being Elfgar's mother. Firstly, no documents that exist mention another wife, secondly, had Leofric been married to another woman prior to Godiva who left behind the single heir, Elfgar, it seems likely that he'd marry a younger woman capable of providing him with more sons rather than a woman as old as Godiva. Therefore, I think it likely that Godiva was his only wife and the mother of Elfgar. But,as this is original research on my part, it cannot go into any Wikipedia articles.--jeanne (talk) 13:30, 4 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Papia of England

Is there a reliable source which states that Papia of England was the mother of Geoffrey de Nuefmarché?--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 18:38, 2 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]