Talk:Bernard Herrmann

Temper?

Something should also probably be put into the article about the fact that he was apparently an extremely unpleasant person to work with, and got along with practically nobody. Williamb 22:28, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

Doesn't belong in an encyclopedia.--66.146.59.114 23:44, 14 August 2006 (UTC)Unopeneddoor

Well his temper is notorious so maybe it should be included. --129.177.138.109 13:19, 01 February 2007 (UTC)

His abrasiveness is mentioned in the early life and career section as one of the reasons his future in-laws disliked him. Eudemis (talk) 03:54, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

Given his... crankiness... it's certainly appropriate. One of the most-notorious stories concerns Herrmann having recommended David Raksin for an assignment (Laura, I think). When Raksin called to thank Herrmann, Herrmann practically screamed at him: "Well, I wouldn't have recommended you if you weren't any good!" WilliamSommerwerck (talk) 18:27, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

Fantômas Remake of Cape Fear Soundtrack

I wrote in the Trivia section that Fantômas made a remake of the Cape Fear soundtrack... just wanted to let you people know...

--Zouavman Le Zouave 16:56, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

--The list of works could use some editing - the first couple of works are definitely juvenalia, and several others are not listed. A bibliography would also be useful. kosboot 21:45, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

The list is taken directly from the Smith biography listed in the article and is the most complete listing that I have of Herrmann's concert works. If you know of more, additions would be welcome. Gershwinrb (talk) 11:18, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

I'll revise it when I get some time. kosboot (talk) 17:53, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Section on Hitchcock Collaboration

This is a disorganized section, and it conflates Herrmann's biography with Hitchcock. The particular Wikipedia problem is that the author declared the Torn Curtain score to be Herrmann's best. That appears to be a personal opinion and should not be in a Wikipedia article. -- kosboot (talk) 13:12, 4 March 2008 (UTC) 17:02, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

Radio scores

I've begun adding to this section. -- kosboot (talk) 13:12, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

Melodrams vs. Melodramas

He called them Melodrams, and made a distinction between what he wanted and what a Melodrama is. So it's not Melodramas, but Melodrams. -- kosboot (talk) 03:04, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Norma Shepherd's death

Does anyone know why his wife died the same day he did?Jeanshirk (talk) 20:26, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

That's incorrect. Norma is still alive. -- kosboot (talk) 04:38, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

War of the Worlds

I'll have to check, but I recall that Herrmann said that no new music was composed for this show, that what little music it had was simply pop songs badly played by the orchestra. -- kosboot (talk) 17:51, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

External Link Suggestion

There is an hour-long talk on 'Film Music: Hitchcock's Psycho', by British academic, Roger Parker, which analyses the music in Psycho: http://www.gresham.ac.uk/event.asp?PageId=45&EventId=789 I think that this would be an very good addition to this page. (I only don't put it up myself as there is a possible conflict-of-interest as I am connected with Gresham College, where the lecture was given). —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jamesfranklingresham (talk • contribs) 13:14, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

suggestions for additional material

Sometime in the late 50s or early 60s, Herrmann composed many (possibly hundreds) of short cues for CBS. CBS used them in many programs, which is why some Perry Mason episodes have Herrmann-ish sounding scores, yet his name doesn't appear in the credits.

There's one little bit of Herrmann genius that I've never seen analyzed. In The Man in the Gray Flannel Suit, there's a flashback in which Gregory Peck's character kills a German soldier. In Herrmann's music, you "hear" everything that's going through Peck's mind. It is the single greatest piece of film scoring I have ever heard. WilliamSommerwerck (talk) 18:35, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

Calling experts on Wuthering Heights

I've just written an article on Wuthering Heights (Herrmann), and I'm having some difficulty confirming the statement, found in numerous google hits, that it was first staged in a concert version in London in 1966. Those hits never give any details of the singers etc, just the bare assertion that it was staged there. The long Music Web International article goes into quite some detail about Herrmann's attempts to get a production going. It gives details about the 1966 recording on Pye that he funded. But it makes no mention of any concert version presented in 1966. Nor does the BH Society site make any mention of it. Other sites flatly deny that Herrmann ever saw the work presented on stage; yet he lived in England and would surely have at least attended (if he wasn't totally involved in) the supposed very first staging of the work most dear to his heart.

I'm getting that someone has confused the 1966 recording with a non-existent concert staging, and that misinformation has been copied widely.

If anyone can confirm that Wuthering Heights was NOT staged in London in 1966; or, if it was, provide more details about it - I would be very grateful. Thank you. -- Jack of Oz ... speak! ... 22:36, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

Wuthering Heights was not produced in London or anywhere else in 1966, only recorded over a period of three days of sessions in Barking Assembly Hall, London, from 11-13 May 1966. As you rightly suspect, someone evidently confused the series of rehearse-and-record studio sessions with a staged performance at that time. In any case, in his biography of Herrmann (page 208), Steven C. Smith confirms that even by 1991, when his biography was published, the opera had still been "unproduced in any medium". As far as I know, despite occasional discussions over the years about a staged performance, that still remains the case today. Incidentally, another work dating from 1966, Herrmann's Echoes for String Quartet, did make it to the stage. This music was used for a ballet entitled Ante Room and was first performed by the Royal Ballet Touring Company at Sadler's Wells Theatre, London, on June 9, 1971, with Herrmann in the audience.Philipson55 (talk) 20:25, 26 March 2011 (UTC) Philipson55

Excellent, thanks.

There have in fact been 2 productions: an abridged stage production in Portland in 1982 (I'm surprised Smith does not at least mention that one, even if he does not recognise its authenticity), and a French full concert version in 2010. The first full stage production is scheduled for next month in Minneapolis, to mark Herrmann's centenary. See the article for further details. Cheers. -- Jack of Oz [your turn] 20:37, 26 March 2011 (UTC)

The Other Bernard Herrmann

I'm glad the article mentions the confusion with the other Bernard Herrmann, whc conducted a BBC orchestra. He was quite well known in Britain in the 70s, and the confusion still occasionally crops up. When the same error was made in a newspaper article a few years ago, the son (or daughter) of the 'other' Bernard Herrmann commented:

"... I would like to put the record straight. The conductor of the NDO was in fact Bernard Herrmann (note the real spelling). Quite a coincidence that the two men pursued musical careers. After conducting the NDO ,Bernard moved to the Midlands where he continued to play with, conduct and arrange for the Midlands Radio Orchestra. The two Bernards met only once and enjoyed some banter about the rightful recipient of royalty payments! During his career,the English Bernard was a highly respected musician and was best known for his leadership of the NDO and thirty years of conducting the orchestra on the 'Good Old Days'. Still enjoying retirement in the Midlands, Bernard is now 77 years old. It is true to say that many people made (and still do) the mistake of confusing the two men, their names are spelt identically. The American's lawyers once protested that my father was 'trading' on his name only to discover the coincidence and then retreat. Hope this clarifies the latest confusion." 86.183.226.45 (talk) 16:26, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

Herrmann in the Bronx DeWitt C?

As Herrmann graduated in 1930, and DeWitt Clinton moved to the Bronx in 1929, this suggests that he spent his last school year in the Bronx. Bellagio99 (talk) 14:02, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

Perhaps, but in a document (that I can't locate at the moment), he describes going to the music store down the street - which pretty much identifies it as Manhattan. Even if he spent the last year in the Bronx (which I don't believe), the majority of his high school time was on 10th avenue in Manhattan. -- kosboot (talk) 15:55, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

I stand corrected; De Witt Clinton was in the Bronx by Sept. 1929 (acc. to NY Times); still that doesn't mean that Bronx should be given primacy over Manhattan, esp. since BH himself mentioned the location in relation to the music store. -- kosboot (talk) 16:09, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

We agree. Some Bronx. Mostly Manhattan. Bellagio99 (talk) 16:18, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

Removed Passage

I removed the passage at the end of the Legacy section that stated "100 years after his death in 2011, it is notable that You Tube has over 4,000 entries devoted to Herrmann. These feature excerpts from the movies for which he wrote the scores, along with recordings of his music conducted by himself and by many others." It's not 100 years after his death and I question whether the YouTube videos are notable at all. Clockster (talk) 10:34, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

Indeed; it's like making a judgement based on how many pirate (i.e. illegal) recordings exist. -- kosboot (talk) 11:09, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

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Influence of Fahrenheit 451 score on George Martin dubious

The film came out in September '66. But the cited song, Eleanor Rigby, came out earlier than the film.Dogru144 (talk) 07:17, 6 December 2020 (UTC)

"Not Jewish in Wikipedia"?

I linked the word Jewish on first usage and it was reverted. It is proper to link on first usage in a bio. Please do not revert again. There has been a lot of struggle associated with citing people as Jewish in Wikipedia. On some occasions exceptional proofs have been required, such as confirming attendance at a synagogue with a newspaper article, because a You Tube video of the person stating he is Jewish, wearing a tallis, and singing Deyeinu was deemed insufficient. Even when Jewishness is found in bios, it is Wikipedia custom to resort to awkward locutions -- "born to a Jewish family," "the daughter of Jewish parents," "the child of a Jewish merchant," et cetera -- so that the person's OWN Jewishness is elided in favour of parental Jewishness. In any case, here we have the usual "Jewish family" notation, and i did not try to change it, merely to link the word on first usage, as is customary. Please let the link stand. Thank you. -- Catherine Yronwode, Jewish, long-time wikipedia editor, and not logged in right now. 75.101.104.17 (talk) 23:41, 11 July 2022 (UTC)

I appreciate your concern, and it is one that I share. However, the mere appearance of one wearing garments associated with Judaism, or that even if one is buried in a Jewish cemetery is not sufficience evidence needed by Wikipedia. This is because one is drawing an inference from such evidence - which is expressly forbidden by Wikipedia (see WP:NOR). As far as the locution "born to Jewish parents" or similar things, this is due to the inability to concretely define what is Jewish - whether the religion, ethnicity, or some tribal connection. I don't see a resolution to that issue. - kosboot (talk) 23:54, 11 July 2022 (UTC)