Talk:Bernadette Chirac

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De Courcel family

Is Bernadette Chirac related to the Lieutenant de Courcel who was de Gaulle's ADC - the man who flew to Britain with CDG and General Spears in June 1940?Mikeo1938 (talk) 22:27, 1 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Bernadette may not be an "aristocrat"

Point of precision: Bernadette is not technically a "noble" as the estate would be understood under the various kingdoms and empires of France. Her great-grandfather, a diplomat under Napoléon III, was born Louis Jules Chodron but allowed by decree of Napoléon III to call himself Louis Jules Chodron de Courcel. However, he was never a noble; it was his eldest son Alphonse who received a letter of ennoblement. Bernadette is a descendant of Alphonse's brother Robert and therefore not of the noble branch.

Bernadette does have more acceptably noble/aristocratic ascendancy, notably through her great-grandmother Henriette née Boulay de la Meurthe. However, in France nobility is transmitted only by the father.

Perhaps a clarification would be appropriate, rather than simply stating "Bernadette Chirac was born into an old aristocratic family of public servants." Despite the noble blood in their veins, due to the origins of their name and fortune and the lettered branch, they are usually considered among the industrial Catholic bourgeoisie. (The big clue is here: "They would become owners through marriages of factories in Gien and Briare, in the Loiret, which were famed for their porcelain and enamel mosaics.") Admittedly, socially, the lines between these and the aristocracy tend to be rather fuzzy in the present day in France, especially since titles have not been recognized by the state for over a hundred years. HOWEVER, if "aristocrat" means anything here it should refer to the Second Estate, to which the paternal line of Bernadette née Chodron de Courcel has never belonged. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.123.208.120 (talk) 00:41, 21 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]