Talk:Trams in Berlin

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Unfortunately, my English knowledge is not without gaps. Thus, if you happen to find some grammar or spelling mistakes, please do not hesitate to correct them without notice on this discussion page. If you find mistakes in the content of this article, please put a short note below this paragraph before you change it. Greetings, Thomas Goldammer 22:08, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

ß does not exist in English, so I am moving the article. Olborne 09:30, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

The Berlin Straßenbahn is in Germany, and you moved this without any consensus. I'm moving it back.  ProhibitOnions  ^(T) 18:45, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

The statement "An average tramway car ran over 170 million kilometers per year" is preposterous. There are 8760 hours in a year, meaning that each car travelled 19,000 kilometers an hour. Jws21jws21Jws21

Cool, isn't it? ;o) It's meant that all cars run 170 mio. km/y. I corrected it. --Thogo (Talk) 23:56, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

There were some places in which I was not sure as to the intended meaning during edits. Please correct any mistakes.Locopingvin (talk) 06:01, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

Links

Most of the links in this article link to German names. Would it be more appropriate to place the links on the English translations because of this article's residence in the English Wikipedia? Locopingvin (talk) 21:44, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

How Anglicised should the name be?

Here in en.WP 'ß' has been used. Even though the article kindly allows use of 'ss' instead. Should en.WP use 'ß' which has no place in English writing? You can't compare use of the character with that of accents which are fairly well known. But isn't the undertaking 'Berliner Straßenbahn'? Do we go the whole hog and have 'Berlin Strassenbahn' or the whole Schwein for 'Berliner Straßenbahn'?--SilasW (talk) 09:16, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

 Done per WP:UE, have moved it to the English name without the problems; The title Berlin tram allows good flexibility in linking without needing hidden pipes (Berlin trams, Berlin tramway, Berlin tram network). —Sladen (talk) 03:42, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

Well, farewell ß. But is anyone going to look for the subject "Berlin tram"? The English part of what is bold in the article is "Berlin tram network" and I'd thought that in WP the title of the article and the opening bold words should be the same. I don't quite see how picking on one particular title out of several possible, each with an equal likelihood of being the subject of an enquirer's search (tho I think "Berlin tram" has a low probability of being a seeker's aim), can reduce crosslinking and redirects.--SilasW (talk) 17:30, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

WP:GHITS is only a guide, but:

Google search	Results		Variation	Results
"Berlin tramway" -wikipedia	386	4,400
"Berlin trams" -wikipedia	457	3,330
"BVG tram" -wikipedia	1,250	11,200
"Straßenbahn Berlin" -wikipedia	4,810	5,000
"Strassenbahn Berlin" -wikipedia	5,820	5,980	"Berlin+Straßenbahn"	30,600
"Berlin tram" -wikipedia	13,100	46,700	"Berlin tram" †	51,900
"Berlin Straßenbahn" -wikipedia	16,100	15,300	"Berlin+Strassenbahn"	30,700

† The last one search term interesting, as it produces the highest result of dropping "-wikipedia" from any of them—it would appear to be the term used most frequently internally within Wikipedia as well as within those sites that point to Wikipedia in some capacity.

Can you think of any more appropriate article names to try in addition those in the table above? (Perhaps I missed something obvious). —Sladen (talk) 19:43, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

Based on the above, and the superior inline linking ability of Berlin tram/Berlin tramway and plurals, I've reverted the recent undiscussed move. —Sladen (talk) 03:08, 24 July 2010 (UTC)

Locations of the Berlin Tram Depots

Trams are stored off-line when not in use (e.g. for maintenance, or over-night storage) at various depots (or garages). Mention of the identity and locations of these depots would be useful, and would also be consistant with other similar Wikipedia articles, e.g. the Vienna Tram article details the depots and the Prague Tram article mentions them.

Since I wrote the above paragraph, I've done a bit of digging around and I think I've found where the depots are...

1. MARZAHN On south side of Landsberger Allee, east of the city centre,
2. NALEPASTRASSE On east side of Nalepastrasse, in Oberschoneweide, south east of city centre,
3. NIEDERSCHOENHAUSEN On east side of Deitzgenstrasse. Its entry branches off M1 line between Nordend & Heinrich Boll Strasse. Although it's there, it looks suspiciously closed,
4. KÖPENICK On west side of Wendenschloss Strasse, south of junction with Muggelheimer Strasse,
5. LICHTENBERG On east side of Siegfriedstrasse, east of city centre.

I doubt if this list is completely accurate. It would be appreciated if someone actually living in Berlin could confirm or correct the research I've carried out. The Internet has helped in one or two places, but a direct inquiry to BVG MAY be the only solution. Hope this helps. Taff Hewitt (talk) 17:19, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

Chapter & verse seems to be at de:Straßenbahn Berlin#Betriebshöfe. TobyJ (talk) 10:14, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

Many thanks for that, Toby. I checked out the site, and found another depot. Unless anyone has any objection, I intend following the line (no pun intended) of the German contributor(s) and add some info about the depots. I also intend indicating where they are, geographically.

Taff Hewitt (talk) 21:42, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

The Berlin tram depots are fairly well-mapped on OpenStreetMap; I've grouped these into a collection relation for you to view more easily: osm.org/browse/relation/3007258. You should be able to click through the members and see where they are, the track numbering, layout and other details. Niederschönhausen is where the "toys" live (locomotive, plus historic trams, …). Kniprodestraße is the track maintenance depot, where the rail-grinder (plus another plinthed locomotive) can normally be seen. Alt-Schmöckwitz unfortunately got burnt down a few years ago—although the tracks leading across the pavement and under the doors can (could) still be seen the last time I had a look.

Note that Wikipedia has a general policy against doing Original Research (WP:OR). It would be better to find a source in one of the many tram-related books, and cite this as a reference of the list of depots. Alternatively you may use the Wikipedia.de content, as long as it is credited. Happy editing! —Sladen (talk) 01:53, 18 June 2013 (UTC) PS. You may also be interested in relation=2203607 and relation=2404397 showing unused and disconnected trackwork.

OK, I've added my piece - feel free to rip it to shreds!!! Actually, the information is fundamentally correct, but my insistance in showing where they are and (indirectly) how to get there may be 'un-Wikipedic' (pardon?). The identity of the depots came from the German version of this article (thanks for that, Toby J), the precise locations came from Google Street View, and the Tram & Bus route info came from the BVG web-site. I've no idea how I apply the source references into the article, and I'd be obliged if someone could do the necessary. Taff Hewitt (talk) 14:25, 18 June 2013 (UTC)

I guess I should respond to all of Taff Hewitt's posts, as I am the editor who translated Trams in Vienna from its de.wikipedia equivalent (and I admit that that translation isn't really finished yet - I'm working instead on the translation of Trams in Bern at the moment). I've translated many articles from foreign Wikipedias, and unfortunately when you do that you almost always encounter the problem that they are not as well referenced as en.wikipedia articles are supposed to be. However, some editors (and I am one of them) believe it's more important that there be an en.wikipedia article about such topics as Trams in Vienna than that such articles be fully referenced, so I just translate the articles anyway, as they are. That said, there's at least some reference material in de.wikipedia for at least some of the information you've just added to the Berlin tram article. For example, de:Betriebshof Weißensee cites a (German language) reference for the material in de.wikipedia about that depot. When I have the time, I'll add some of these references to the en.wikipedia article. More accessible references (at least for non German speakers) are this book and this book, each of them by Robert Schwandl, but unfortunately I don't have a copy of either book. As far as OpenStreetMap is concerned, I don't regard the obtaining of information from published maps as being Original Research. So, eg, I believe it is acceptable for editors to use information from google maps to add coord templates to articles. Bahnfrend (talk) 15:30, 18 June 2013 (UTC)

I thank you for you input, Bahnfrend. I'm not Wikipedically competant, so any required corrections are greatly appreciated. Incidentally, I read the Vienna Tram article prior to going on a recent holiday to Vienna (& Prague & Berlin) to see what sort of fleet they had, for photographic purposes. My hotel was just down the road from Hernals Depot! So your translation efforts DEFINATELY had an positive end-result! Taff Hewitt (talk) 17:18, 18 June 2013 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: moved per request. Favonian (talk) 17:18, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

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Berlin tram → Trams in Berlin – standard form name for articles in this series, eg Trams in Amsterdam, Trams in Budapest, Trams in Lisbon, Trams in Vienna, Trams in Germany, etc. – I have listed the request here as potentially controversial only because there have been some previous name changes for this article that were swiftly reverted on the basis that they hadn't been previously discussed. Bahnfrend (talk) 17:09, 19 January 2014 (UTC)

• support per nomination, standardisation is good in these sorts of cases. Thryduulf (talk) 16:57, 20 January 2014 (UTC)
• Support Red Slash 17:00, 20 January 2014 (UTC)
• Support per nomination. SJ Morg (talk) 04:30, 22 January 2014 (UTC)

Comment There is now a similar move request for Munich Tramway. Bahnfrend (talk) 13:46, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.