Talk:Bengeo

Untitled

Is this article a stub?

Is there much more that could be said about Bengeo?

--JimmyTheWig 15:04, 12 July 2005 (UTC)

I reckon there is more that could be added - e.g. dates of construction of The Avenue development, and on the other side Revels Road etc. along with photos of the churches and water tower... Famous residents, Biggles links.... C2r 21:44, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

This article is riddled with error: a) Bengeo is not a village; b) while Lower Bengeo is a distinct area known by that name, there is nowhere known as Upper Bengeo; c) Millmead School is outside the Bengeo boundary; d) The assertion that the Norman church was "one of the first buildings to be constructed in the original village (sic) of Bengeo" is mere assertion; one would have expected the settlement to have preceded the church; e) comments such as "village atmosphere" belong in the world of marketing puff, not an encyclopedia. (Bengeo Bertie (talk) 16:09, 21 March 2008 (UTC))

I must say I'm inclined to agree with you on the village point. I have connections to the area and as far as I am aware, the references to Bengeo as a village are an attempt to distinguish it as a different area of Hertford. While I do not live in the area now, I am familiar with the geography and it never seemed to be any different than any other area of Hertford in terms of recognition as a village. I've reworded in a more neutral way, but if someone can come up with a reliable reference that states Bengeo was once considered a village (rather than just the apparent minority with the (unofficial) opinion that currently stands), it can be added back appropriately. As for the other points you raised, I unfortunately do not know enough of the area anymore to know how correct you are. I have, however, removed most of the capitalisation on the words 'upper' and 'lower' when referring to the parts of Bengeo since they don't appear to be official, according to the text in the article. Sky83 (talk) 21:53, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

Classification of Bengeo (Avoid Edit War)

Please start your discussions here about the classification of Bengeo being either a parish, part of Hertford town, a mixture or something else. Include any evidence, including links and highlight relevant parts. Please keep civil and avoid revert wars. Jamsta (talk) 18:38, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

I quite agree. It was previously agreed to leave Bengeo as a parish in Hertfordshire, but for some reason this has been brought up again by the user Gandalf61 (sp?). No reliable source has been provided to state that Bengeo is a village, so the best thing to do, to avoid this coming up at random moments, is to keep the previous wording, which does not incorrectly lead readers to believe that this is a village. Parish is correct, ward is correct, village is not. We also can't state that it borders Hertford, or is northwest of the town. It can be displayed that it is on the edge of Hertford, or in the northwest side of town, but nothing that alludes to it being completely distinct. Hertford has a number of outlying areas, this is one of them.

To be clear, I would be happy with parish or ward, with no allusion to village or separation. Sky83 (talk) 18:48, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

Three reliable sources:

1. Church of England: "(Holy Trinity with Christ Church) Bengeo - About our Parish - A large village to the northwest of the county town of Hertford ..."
2. British History Online: "BENGEO ... The parish of Bengeo lies north of Hertford ..."
3. Duncombe School website: "... situated in leafy Bengeo on the outskirts of Hertford ..."

I don't insist on "village", although Bengeo was historically a village. I would be happy with "northwest of the county town of Hertford" or "on the northwest edge of the county town of Hertford" or "bordering the county town of Hertford on the northwest" or "on the outskirts of the county town of Hertford". I am not happy with "in the northwest of the county town of Hertford", which is wrong, or "northwest in the county town of Hertford", which is ungrammatical. I note that Sky83 has provided no sources to support their assertion that Bengeo is just a part of Hertford town. Gandalf61 (talk) 10:33, 8 June 2012 (UTC)

Apologies for any grammatical errors in this reply, as I am replying from my iPhone. Northwest edge of the county town would be fine with me, as long as it is that wording used. Those sources quoted are not reliable or in some cases independent. It is often agenda driven to promote Bengeo as a village, so that's essentially the specific problem with independent sources. If the last sentence of the introduction is going to continue to cause problems for anyone, I suggest stopping it at Hartham Common and not saying anything further. Sky83 (talk) 11:25, 8 June 2012 (UTC)

So will you agree to:

Bengeo is an ecclesiastical parish on the northwest edge of the county town of Hertford in Hertfordshire, England. It is also an electoral ward of Hertford. It is referenced in the Domesday Book, where it is called "Belingehou". It is situated on a rise between the River Beane and River Rib overlooking Hartham Common.

Gandalf61 (talk) 11:54, 8 June 2012 (UTC)

Okay, two days later, no response from Sky83 so I have gone ahead and made the proposed change. Gandalf61 (talk) 15:05, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

I do have a life outside of wikipedia you know, I don't come here every day! But that's fine, I will revert any changes to it by anyone coming along in the future. Sky83 (talk) 19:16, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

References

There is a problem with the references. They go up to 10 in the text but only 5 are listed in the Reflist. I can't work out why this is. Can anyone help? Roundtheworld (talk) 08:11, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

Caused by malformed template syntax in refs introduced by edit in September. Now fixed. Gandalf61 (talk) 09:50, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

Notable People

I am trying to preempt a bit of an edit war breaking out again on the article here. I noticed a few days ago shortly after an editor added several names of people with claimed local connections these were reverted soon after gain added and then removed again. Now I see that some names have been readded with more details and citations. Thing is the accepted convention is to add only names of people who have articles elsewhere on WP and have met the set down WP notability critera see Wikipedia:Notability (people). Otherwise it is open to editors, particularaly those who fly-by an article, to add their own favourite person and things soon get out of control. It may be that all or at least some of those added today would meet the WP Notability critria but to avoid a potential edit war it would be sensible and appropriate to only include those people for whom there is an article elsewhere on Wikipedia. From the mini-bios and references provied it should be possible to first create a short but properly cited article about these on WP and then wikiplink to them. Hope these suggestions help avoid emotions rising again!Tmol42 (talk) 00:57, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

I removed the original additions by Hornsmill (talk · contribs) because the connection of those people to Bengeo was not well sourced and they included the following piece of nonsense:

Reginald Layzell, an assistant to television pioneer John Logie Baird lived in a bungalow on Cowper Crescent with his wife Edith. Layzell is doubly famous as he is one of only a few people to have completed a lap of the M25 after missing a turning in his green Vauxhall Viva.

The latest additions by Hornsmill (talk · contribs) are much better. The paragraph about Thomas Dimsdale is well sourced and I have no problems with it. The paragraph about Pearl Cassell is borderline - there is a link to her obituary which mentions Bengeo, but it is not clear that this is Bengeo, Hertford or that she is notable. I have given this the benefit of the doubt, but I have shortened it and removed peacock terms ("internationally acclaimed", "international bestseller"). The paragraph about John Rennie lacked a source, but I have found and added one. Gandalf61 (talk) 10:31, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

The quality of Hornsmill (talk · contribs)'s latest additions to "notable people" has gone downhill again. I have removed a couple of entries where the source does not seem to mention Bengeo at all, and trimmed others. In terms of notability, I think another couple of these entries (Pearl Cassel and Kenneth Burslam Gardner) are very borderline. Gandalf61 (talk) 12:59, 20 March 2013 (UTC)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Assume_good_faith Hi Gandy, in your opinion it "has gone downhill". Yet you have removed several of Bengeo's favourite sons and noteworthy individuals. Thomas Rooke was born in Bengeo. His WP entry says that and so do several sources e.g. http://www.ovguide.com/thomas-charles-byde-rooke-9202a8c04000641f800000001f0316a8# http://files.usgwarchives.net/hi/keepers/koc51.txt http://www.royalark.net/Hawaii/hawaii5.htm John Howard was born in Bengeo. His WP entry says that and so do several sources. http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.com/articles/john-george-howard Kenneth Gardner received not one but two "significant award[s] or honor[s]", one of which was presented by the Emperor of Japan, not significant enough for you? Perhaps I have the referencing wrong for several of these notable individuals and I'd be delighted for you to correct that. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hornsmill (talk • contribs) 20:38, 20 March 2013 (UTC)

Hi Hornsmill, I have to agree with Gandy that both Cassell's and Gardner's notability is highly questionable and as it stands would not meet WPs notability. The honours etc you refer to are not obviously of the ilk to satisfy these requirements. I propose these are removed and if you are still of the view that they are notable folk suggest again that you create articles for them and if they survive such public airing on WP you can re add them. In short regardless of how important they might be in relation to erstwhile times of Bengeo this does not matter a jot when it comes to inclusion under the heading of notable people on WP. Re Thomas Dimsdale he meets the WP notability criteria as an MP and should have an article written on him on these grounds. His role in smallpox inoculation does not figure on the WP articles relating to this which may be an oversight or that within the long global and crowded history of inoculation he is not considered at the level of pioneer. Better that his name is 'redlinked' rather than the URL at present. that's as far as I have got so will look at the others. Tmol42 (talk) 22:42, 20 March 2013 (UTC)