Talk:Benefits realisation management

Cleaning up the talk page

I'm intending to clean up this page to make it more useful for content discussion after Christmas. There is no real need for the advertisement tag / removing advertisement tag sections now, however I will keep the content headed in the advertisement tag section as a new discussion on appropriate language unless there are objections or people would prefer something else. FMMonty (talk) 21:02, 22 December 2013 (UTC)

Advertisement tag

The content needs to be expressed in an encyclopedic tone and should not be reliant on technical jargon. For example, "An investment is only successful if intended benefits are realised and BRM supports key choices and actions to achieve this success" could be better expressed as "BRM facilitates successful investments." The sentences "BRM has clear roles and responsibilities, processes, principles and deliverables that are common across investment types. Common investment types include procurement, projects, programmes, portfolios and in continuing business operations." has many overlapping terms and reads like a brochure.
Best Wishes Ankh.Morpork 19:56, 18 April 2012 (UTC) Hello: I agree that a clear tone of language is required - however, the current definition on this page is totally incorrect and can be improved greatly. I am happy to help do this, assuming inputs are welcome? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ktlonergan (talk • contribs) 23:38, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

This is Wikipedia, inputs are always welcome. There isn't a formal definition currently, just a layman's terms outline of what BRM is. This is because there are many contradictory definitions and descriptions, and they are all heavily in business speak and technical jargon (hence the advert banner and terminology spanking that was here before). As an example MSP 2011 defines BRM as being within and beyond a programme, which goes outside of the definition on your linked site, and the original definition was the even more limited 2003 definition of Benefits Realisation Management (BRM) is the explicit planning, delivery and management of whole life benefits from an investment. An investment is only successful if intended benefits are realised and BRM supports key choices and actions to achieve this success. One of the problems with BRM isn't that it is a new discipline (unless 30 odd years is considered new), it is that it has numerous camps of "the right way" that assume all the others are "totally incorrect and can be improved greatly". If you fancy a crack at an encyclopedic definition without business speak or the requirement to have a glossary of benefits terminology then have a go (although it might be better to discuss here first). I have considered adding a definitions section and putting in half a dozen differing definitions, however each would need its own glossary as the definitions of terms vary between the camps as well. This page does need more editors, BRM is a vary broad church, and a great deal more unbiased information needs to be added. FMMonty (talk) 20:46, 22 December 2013 (UTC) I am more than happy to help/ contribute - I'm not sure providing lots of different definitions will help - would it be better to aim to achieve one generic definition that meets the expected standard etc? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ktlonergan (talk • contribs) 12:04, 23 December 2013 (UTC) The place I would start is here: "BRM is one of the many ways of managing how time and resources are invested into making changes that people want to see happen" - this is poor, because it is a) misleading and b) provides little help at all to a reader/ user?

I'll happily agree that it is too short, however I disagree that it is misleading. Some people view BRM as just a toolkit for putting a BRM layer on top of their normal project management practices (if they bother with BRM at all). A sort of benefits wash is how I would term this. The ideal (according to the APM) is described below.

If value is to be created and sustained, benefits need to be actively managed through the whole investment lifecycle. From describing & selecting the investment, through programme scoping and design, delivery of the programme to create the capability and execution of the business changes required to utilise that capability, and the operation and eventual retirement of the resulting assets. Unfortunately, this is rarely the case.

It would be much better for us to actually work together to add content to the article rather than to the talk page. I don't mind you asking me to cite anything you disagree with (look up how to use citation needed markup), or you putting up your own definition / sections of text. If I disagree we can chat about it, and having both my view and yours (plus anyone else who pitches in) will give a much better balanced article. FMMonty (talk) 17:40, 29 December 2013 (UTC) I agree in principle completely - it may not be as easy as asking for citation: my reference to misleading is the reference to "time" and "resource" in the definition - it will tend readers minds towards core project management processes, which have nothing to do with benefits planning and realisation? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.129.251.227 (talk) 13:34, 31 December 2013 (UTC) I have no objection to moving simply to investments, rather than investments of time and resource. As I say make any changes you see fit and we can chat about them in the wings. In many cases during benefits optimisation you need to consider time and resource, but as you say it is a PM delivery method that worries about controlling things at that level, optimisation is more about getting the best cost benefit profile within the constraints. FMMonty (talk) 17:44, 31 December 2013 (UTC)

Removing the advertising and sources tags

I'm attempting to clean up this page without removing too much of the original contributors meaning. I think the rephrasing and tidying up of the page so far probably merits the removal of those tags but if anyone thinks more needs to be done please let me know.

I'd like to add in a short discussion of each of the major methods of BRM as well, mainly because people get very het up over terms such as objective and benefit as they mean slightly different things within the methods. FMMonty (talk) 20:09, 25 August 2012 (UTC) This is a new topic of business only developed in recent years - for this reason there are few references other than the ones already mentioned on this page - we have an article that provides a detailed description of the topic, which would provide a lot more information (and background etc for readers) as an external reference - would be happy to add this as a reference if others agree? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ktlonergan (talk • contribs) 10:54, 15 October 2013 (UTC)

I've removed your link to your site from this talk page. You were warned by Kuru on 22:18, 17 April 2012 (UTC) not to keep adding that link, so I'd suggest that you not attempt to do so again. FMMonty (talk) 21:36, 22 December 2013 (UTC)

with respect, I was only asking if a link would be considered useful - I did not add it to the page. Currently this is one of the least accurate and useful pages on Wiki and there are not that many external references around of reasonable accuracy and quality to point to. If you go down the path of definitions it is very possible you will either a) end up with very many or b) end up with narrow definitions that only apply to specific circumstances, which many people could logically disagree with. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ktlonergan (talk • contribs) 16:53, 27 December 2013 (UTC)

Hello all - I see this page has not moved on much - it is currently a woeful description of this topic. I am happy to contribute via the sandbox? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ktlonergan (talk • contribs) 17:05, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

Hello all - this page still contains some basic inaccuracies about this topic - I am happy to try and help (in a non promotional way) via the talk page if others agree? Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ktlonergan (talk • contribs) 21:40, 22 April 2015 (UTC) and to add some 'evidence' to my claims I am adding this link for the purposes of discussion (please note this is a business blog and I recognise it is not written in encyclopedic style) but it contains important information on this topic http://www.pmis-consulting.com/benefits-realisation-context-drives-the-terminology/