Talk:Ben Farès Mosque

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Requested move 13 February 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

It was proposed in this section that Djamaa Ben farès be renamed and moved to Ben Farès Mosque.

result:
Moved per consensus garnered below. Thanks and kudos to all editors for your input, and Happy, Healthy Editing! (nac by page mover) P.I. Ellsworth - ed. ^put'r there 08:40, 1 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Links: current log • target log

This is template {{subst:Requested move/end}}

Djamaa Ben farès → Ben Farès Mosque – English title used in the article. In all Wikipedia articles about mosquest the title is Something Mosque. Djamaa ben fares is not found in google, only in 9 weird websites. Loew Galitz (talk) 20:03, 13 February 2022 (UTC) — Relisting. Extraordinary Writ (talk) 22:32, 20 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Note: this request was altered from Djamaa Ben farès → Abu Farès Mosque to the above proposal at 20:33 on 13 February 2022. P.I. Ellsworth - ed. ^put'r there 23:50, 14 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose Apart from the fact that "Djamaa Ben farès" is the WP:COMMONNAME, the proposed title has a different meaning as "abu" and "ben" mean two different things. M.Bitton (talk) 20:09, 13 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- It is not common name. If you disagree, please provide reliable sources that say it is a common name. I found none. the commonnest name is Great Synagogue of Algiers. Loew Galitz (talk) 20:33, 13 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- Sorry, I made a mistake Of course it is Ben Fares. Loew Galitz (talk) 20:33, 13 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

It's an insignificant mosque in a country that doesn't value tourism, so don't expect to find much about it. Nonetheless, here are some sources[1][2][3][4] supporting the "Djamaa Ben farès" name.

" Great Synagogue of Algiers" is how it used to be called when it was a synagogue. It's no longer applicable.

Please provide reliable sources that support you proposed change. M.Bitton (talk) 20:51, 13 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Ben Fares mosque" is literal English-language translation of the arabic "Djamaa Ben farès". This is English language wikipedia. There are sources in Arabic for Djamaa, but no sources in English. In the case when there is no common name in English, then translations preferred. If you look into category:Mosques, you will readily see Dar ul-Ihsan Mosque but not Djamaa Dar ul-Ihsan and so on. Or even look into List of mosques in Algeria. Loew Galitz (talk) 21:44, 13 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I have already provided the sources that support the current title. Please provide reliable sources that support you proposed change. M.Bitton (talk) 22:19, 13 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I provided my explanation. Do you really need sources that "Djamaa" means "mosque"? Of your sources only one is moderately reliable and it says "Djamaa (mosquée) Ben Fares" meaning the (unknown) poster didnt actually know what to do. Loew Galitz (talk) 17:52, 14 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Why ask for sources if you're not willing to do the same? Here's another reliable source that supports the current title. M.Bitton (talk) 19:00, 14 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

See my detailed explanation above. My suggestion is according to the norms of English language and Wikipedia tradition, while yours is a foreign-language usage. YOur another source is non-english. It is quite possible that in French colonial tradition this is the way of naming. But in ENglish a mosque is a mosque is a mosque, not djamaa, just as a synagogue is called synagogue and not "beit tfilah". Loew Galitz (talk) 23:22, 14 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

All I see is a lot of cherry picking from the sources that I provided and not a single source in sight to support you proposed change. M.Bitton (talk) 23:29, 14 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

What you call "cherrypicking" I call "questioning the validity of the sources" Loew Galitz (talk) 23:41, 14 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

You can call it whatever you wish, the bottom line is that I provided the sources that you cherry picking from and you failed to present a single source to support your proposed change. That's an undisputed fact. M.Bitton (talk) 23:46, 14 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

And the undisputed fact is "Djamaaa" is translated as "Mosque" in English whatever Arabic source you take and translate. Loew Galitz (talk) 23:01, 20 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

question Why Ben fares" and not "Ben Fares"? Isn't it a personal name? I would Expect "ben Fares"Loew Galitz (talk) 21:44, 13 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

It is indeed a personal name and the sources that I provided above use capital "F". M.Bitton (talk) 22:00, 13 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Support the current proposal Ben Farès Mosque. Against the nom's evidence that the current title is unknown in English secondary sources, we have only claims without evidence that it is the common name. The proposed name is more recognisable, and consistent with other articles, indicating a consensus on this format. Andrewa (talk) 09:02, 28 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Comment there was an open WP:3O on this section I have closed it because there are more than 2 participants to the discussion. — PBS (talk) 14:16, 28 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.