Talk:Bells Across the Meadows

Orphaned references in Bells Across the Meadows

I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Bells Across the Meadows's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "Score":

• From By the Blue Hawaiian Waters: By the Blue Hawaiian Waters. Bosworth. 1927. {{cite book}}: |access-date= requires |url= (help)
• From In a Chinese Temple Garden: "In a Chinese Temple-Garden: oriental phantasy". University of Maine. 1923. Retrieved 19 July 2016.
• From In the Mystic Land of Egypt: "In The Mystic Land of Egypt" (PDF). pianosheetmusic.writtenmelodies.com. 1931. Retrieved 21 July 2016.

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT⚡ 17:04, 4 August 2016 (UTC)

Thanks, bot. I forgot to remove something. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:13, 4 August 2016 (UTC)

Subtitle or genre?

The article calls "Characteristic Intermezzo" a subtitle, but having seen the image of the original sheet music that was just added to the article, I think it might instead be a genre or type of piece, much like a symphony, sonata, or intermezzo—in this case, a specific type of intermezzo. This is something that should be considered; perhaps a review or other article about the piece might discuss this very issue. BlueMoonset (talk) 01:49, 10 August 2016 (UTC)

It's the genre, not a subtitle [1]. It's not a very widely used/named genre -- sort of a cross between a character piece and an intermezzo. Softlavender (talk) 02:44, 10 August 2016 (UTC)

Thanks, Softlavender. Good to know. I wonder whether "oriental phantasy", then, for the Chinese piece mentioned above, it also a genre, albeit one even more rare than "characteristic intermezzo". If it were "oriental fantasy", I'd consider it quite likely, since "fantasy"/"fantasia" is itself a genre. BlueMoonset (talk) 03:17, 10 August 2016 (UTC)

That's a genre too, even with the old spelling. It actually gets more Google hits (with that spelling) than the other genre: [2]. -- Softlavender (talk) 05:28, 10 August 2016 (UTC)

Thank you for helping with language for types of music I never heard. They seemed rather special phrases. I am just afraid that some readers may also have never heard them, and that the "übergeordnete" (?) light music is more readily understood. What do you think? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:13, 10 August 2016 (UTC)

Hi Gerda, I think the point that BlueMoonset was making is that subtitled Characteristic Intermezzo is (at least somewhat) inaccurate -- that's not a subtitle, it's just a descriptor, plus it has the word "A" before the descriptor (see the sheet music). Wikipedia should not state subtitled Characteristic Intermezzo, although we could state subtitled A Characteristic Intermezzo, or called a "characteristic intermezzo" by the composer, or called a "characteristic intermezzo" by the composer. I agree the main genre (for the lede, etc.) is light music-- Softlavender (talk) 07:55, 10 August 2016 (UTC)

Thank you! I changed the whatever it is, and said "specified", and refer the discussion to project classical music, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:19, 10 August 2016 (UTC)

I question whether the so-called "subtitle" should be in the infobox. It's a bit unnecessary, awkward, and confusing. In my mind it's not really the subtitle, as I mentioned above. It's a bit like when when novels have "A Novel" on the book cover so people will know it's not a nonfiction book. For example The Da Vinci Code: A Novel. We don't include "A Novel" as the so-called "subtitle" of The Da Vinci Code anywhere in that article, even though it's clearly on the book cover: [3]. -- Softlavender (talk) 11:32, 10 August 2016 (UTC)

2 or 3 things

@Gerda Arendt:,@Dr Blofeld:, and any others:

• 1. I have now read the quote from Gavin Bryars several times and have no idea what on earth it is supposed to mean. And I very much doubt that he did, either. I gently suggest deleting it.
• 2. I have always heard the Ketelby was inspired to write this piece by bells he heard in Malta. I just found this, e.g.
• 3. For what it's worth, no musical dictionary I am aware of lists 'characteristic intermezzo' as a form or genre, and unless anyone can show different, the words 'A characteristic intermezzo' are undoubtedly a subtitle, not a formal descriptor. The example of Dan Brown is imo rather futile (as is anything connected to Dan Brown for that matter). Perhaps more relevant would be, e.g. H G. Wells's Love and Mr. Lewisham. The author appended to his title: "The Story of a Very Young Couple". It is, indeed, the story of a very young couple, but that doesn't prevent those words being a subtitle. See also Conrad's The Secret Agent: "A Simple Tale". These sorts of subtitles were common in English fiction in the Victorian and Edwardian era and were regarded as a relevant (and sometimes self-mocking) part of the titling of the work. The same, I suggest, without any self-mockery, is true in the present case.Smerus (talk) 15:43, 10 August 2016 (UTC)

Agree on the quotation -- I have removed it and replaced it with a better one. In terms of the Malta rumor, the linked account is quite vague and even doubts itself. Plus it is refuted here by an investigative scholar and Ketelbey expert: [4]. It appears to be merely an unfounded rumor perpetuated by the citizens of Gozo. Softlavender (talk) 08:57, 11 August 2016 (UTC)