Talk:Bell Bank

Paid

The sole contributor to this article, WikiWriter7519, appears to a a single purpose account promoting Bell Bank across multiple articles. This article will need some serious cleanup. Sam at Megaputer (talk) 04:37, 2 January 2021 (UTC)

Edit request 10-NOV-2023

Include a visual to show "First Downs to Pay It Forward," under bullet point "Arizona Cardinals, an American professional football team based in the Phoenix area" (Sponsorships and Endorsements).

Bell Bank’s partnership with the Arizona Cardinals includes the ‘First Downs to Pay It Forward’ program, with charitable donations for each Cardinals first down during the 2023-24 season.

WikiWriter1005 (talk) 15:54, 10 November 2023 (UTC)

References

Reply 11-NOV-2023

  Edit request declined  

• The image's caption does not adequately describe what the reader is looking at. As such, its inclusion in the article would distract from, rather than enhance, reader comprehension of the subject matter.

Regards,  Spintendo  23:54, 11 November 2023 (UTC)

@Spintendo would the edit request go through with a different caption? See below. Additionally, can we include footnote 105 to the caption as part of the caption to cite the source information.

Bell Bank’s partnership with the Arizona Cardinals, as shown in this photo, includes the ‘First Downs to Pay It Forward’ program, with a charitable donation from Bell, matched by the Cardinals organization, for each Cardinals first down during the 2023-24 season. WikiWriter1005 (talk) 19:59, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

As you guessed it, my concern is that what were showing here in the picture is nothing more than a crowd of people and an electronic billboard that contains the logo of the company. There is nothing that this adds to the article that isn't covered elsewhere. Your revised caption says "Bell Bank's partnership with Arizona Cardinals, as shown in this photo," however, a partnership is ephemeral; I'm not sure that is what the photo depicts (or that it can depict a partnership outside of a scan of the contract, which is not possible). In this way I feel that depicting the photo is just promotional, similar to having a picture of people cheering under a logo of the company, it serves no other purpose. Regards,  Spintendo  23:13, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

@Spintendo thank you for the clarification. We will keep this in mind moving forward with any additional requests related to media. Do I have your permission on archiving/closing/deleting this discussion? Please advise or proceed with next steps. Thanks! WikiWriter1005 (talk) 18:46, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

COI tag (November 2023)

I've added the COI tag as WikiWriter1005 (talk · contribs) has added portions to the mainspace article about sponsorships. microbiologyMarcus ^{(petri dish•growths)} 17:46, 10 November 2023 (UTC)

And, as above, WikiWriter7519 (talk · contribs) COI indication on their user page, while some issues were addressed, the main portion of the article remains unchanged. Tagging after second instance of COI conflict. I'm aware of the COIREQ message above, but asking for permission to include photo doesn't assuage the concerns about the text they wrote for the article. microbiologyMarcus ^{(petri dish•growths)} 17:51, 10 November 2023 (UTC)

@MicrobiologyMarcus Thank you for clarifying. After reviewing Template: COI, what are next steps in removing this tag if possible and where in the article can non-neutral content be addressed? WikiWriter1005 (talk) 18:50, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

Hi @WikiWriter1005: you've done the correct procedure by requesting a COI edit. Note that there are currently 15 requests in front of yours at the backlog at the time of writing, and editors are volunteers who are under no obligation to complete requests.

In so far as the COI tag is concerned, you can request that the editor doing the COI edits also complete an entire review of the page so that a third party has a chance to examine any promotional claims or prose on the page.

A lot of editors take a very dim view of COI contributions—any page has been written as promotional material has a lot of concerns about the neutrality (WP:NPOV) of the page. Not just what is written, but what might also not be written. A lot of proverbial ink has been spilled in other areas so I will refrain from writing more here but in short, there is a fruit of the poisonous tree-like element at play here where once something has been tainted, it's hard to regain that neutrality naturally without a lot of work and validation (how do you prove a counter-factual?) and the {{COI}} tag does the work of respecting our readers to let them know about the suspect history of the article.

Don't take it as a punishment to the corporation of Bell Bank, yourself, or the work of colleagues, but rather the necessary information required for proper encyclopedic content and to respect our readers. microbiologyMarcus ^{(petri dish·growths)} 21:46, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

NOTE: I am proposing these edits on behalf of Bell Bank. I am a paid editor and aware of the COI guidelines. With the existing page’s information being either out of date or in need of better sourcing, the full text of our edit request/proposed rewrite is below. We look forward to the community’s thoughts and are hopeful to gain consensus on how to proceed with the proposed re-writes. I’ll flag this request for editors engaged in the article’s WikiProjects as well. Thanks for your time and consideration.

Edit requests made in bold.

• Bell Bank is a privately owned bank headquartered in Fargo, North Dakota with assets of $13 billion. Bell Bank, which employs more than 1,900 people (same footnote/reference) (more than 560 in the Twin Cities region - remove this text and footnote) has 27 full-service banking locations (please use footnote 6, bell.bank/locations, on current version).

History and Growth

• (paragraph 9) Bell also purchased a 12-story building at 520 Main Ave. in downtown Fargo, which will reopen in 2024 after a full remodeling as Bell’s new headquarters.
• (paragraph 10) In 2022, Bell finalized its building lease for a new mortgage servicing center in Owensboro, Ky. Bell also (opened its first loan production office in Denver, focused on commercial lending, and - delete phrase) launched Bell Business Credit, a specialty lending team providing asset-based lending and factoring services for working capital intensive companies.

Awards Received by Bell Bank

• Best Workplaces for Women - add 2023
• Best Workplaces for Millenials - add 2023
• Bell ranked 8th on People magazine’s list of 100 Companies That Care in 2023, 32nd in 2022 [leave existing footnote] and 87th in 2021 [leave existing footnote].

Sponsorships and Endorsements

• Remove The Blenders (and footnotes)
• Add Arizona Cardinals, an American professional football team based in the Phoenix area (already updated, but including here for purpose of COI disclosure)

Please reach out with any questions or guidance on additional edits.

WikiWriter1005 (talk) 18:31, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

 Working Lewcm Talk to me! 08:23, 6 December 2023 (UTC)

 Done Lewcm Talk to me! 08:44, 6 December 2023 (UTC)

References

Edit request May 2024

NOTE: I am proposing these edits on behalf of Bell Bank. I am a paid editor and aware of the COI guidelines. With the existing page’s information being either out of date or in need of better sourcing, the full text of our edit request/proposed rewrite is below. We look forward to the community’s thoughts and are hopeful to gain consensus on how to proceed with the proposed re-writes. I’ll flag this request for editors engaged in the article’s WikiProjects as well. Thanks for your time and consideration.

Sponsorships and Endorsements

• Lindsay Whalen - Remove
• Tyus Jones- Remove
• Amy Olson - Remove
• Arizona Cardinals - Remove

WikiWriter1005 (talk) 19:33, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

References

 Not done Please provide a reason for doing so and supporting reliable sources. P,TO 19104 (talk) (contribs) 20:06, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

NOTE: I am proposing these edits on behalf of Bell Bank. I am a paid editor and aware of the COI guidelines. With the existing page’s information being either out of date or in need of better sourcing, the full text of our edit request/proposed rewrite is below. We look forward to the community’s thoughts and are hopeful to gain consensus on how to proceed with the proposed re-writes. I’ll flag this request for editors engaged in the article’s WikiProjects as well. Thanks for your time and consideration.

Sponsorships and Endorsements

• Lindsay Whalen - Remove
• Tyus Jones- Remove
• Amy Olson - Remove
• Arizona Cardinals - Remove

The reason we’ve requested to remove several of the sponsorships and endorsements is that those specific partnerships are no longer in place due to expiration of contracts.

WikiWriter1005 (talk) 14:41, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

References

 Not done. Same request as above, references were requested. Bobby Cohn (talk) 14:46, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

@Bobby Cohn can you provide some more clarity on this? In a previous request under "COI tag (November 2023)" to remove "The Blenders," there was no request to include any sort of references. While we understand and respect the need for references, we're unable to share the contracts externally. We do hope the list can be updated, so that the page continues to present accurate and up-to-date information. Thank you. WikiWriter1005 (talk) 15:07, 29 October 2024 (UTC)

We aren't looking for the contracts to be shared externally. We're looking for sources that say the individuals are no longer associated with the company, see WP:V. Someone has found some reason to include them, so to challenge their inclusion would require a re-analysis of the source material (i.e.: if the announcement itself gave start and end dates) or to provide different source material to show that the current writing is no longer the case. However Wikipedia is not of the position to be updating and maintaining an active list of agreements based on the whim of the company. I personally believe the listings of endorsements as they're being used is a WP:NOTDB and WP:PROMO violation, as demonstrated by the company's desire to include them as evident on this talk page. Bobby Cohn (talk) 16:37, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

@Bobby Cohn thank you for the clarification as this helps give a better understanding to the article page overall. I appreciate your elaboration on the WP:NOTDB and WP:PROMO violations. Based on your response, can we proceed with removing the "Sponsorships and Endorsements" section altogether?

As it pertains to this matter, would this have an impact on the article and its COI tag. By removing the "Sponsorships and Endorsements" portion of this article, is it sufficient enough to resolve the issue? If not, what suggestions do you have in doing so?

Thank you. WikiWriter1005 (talk) 22:38, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

Before removing, can we get clarity on the second point? Thank you. WikiWriter1005 (talk) 16:30, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

Instead, it would probably be better to convert the list to summary style prose, include only those who are covered in independent sources, and describe it more neutrally along the lines of Bell Bank has or has had previous agreements or partnerships with x, y, and z. These have resulted in a, b, and c charitable and promotional causes. See the guidance that is typically a part of the {{prose}} maintenance tag. Each name and event should have its own independent citation to a reliable source. This is how I would consider it being the most respectful to our readers. Bobby Cohn (talk) 17:42, 22 November 2024 (UTC)