Talk:Beat 'em up/GA1

GA Review

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GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria

1. Is it reasonably well written?

   A. Prose quality:

   Some things I have corrected (use for future reference):

• Remember to stay consistent with the usage and spelling of terms: for example, it should be "cooperative" across the board (see Cooperative gameplay) instead of "co-operative" with the hyphen.
• Spell out (and wikilink when necessary) common video game jargon (i.e. "2D", "3D") in the first instance and then abbreviate afterwards. This is especially true with core video game articles where other readers who don't know about video gaming may not understand.
• Watch for comma splices. Don't use commas to set off an independent and a dependent clause in complex sentences.
• A rule of thumb on when to link is: link the first instance in the lead, link the first instance in the body of the article, and that's it. I have linked 2D computer graphics and 3D computer graphics.
• As players walk through the level, they are stopped by groups of enemies who must be defeated before the player can continue. → Stay consistent with the tense. For example, in this sentence, you start with "players" and end with "the player".
• The level is over once all the enemies are defeated. → Try to use verbs that indicate action over verbs that indicate being (which is, in essence, changing from passive voice to active voice). I've changed "is over" in this sentence to "ends".
• Might be more of a preference, but I think you should stick with "enemies" or "minions". I changed most instances of "minions" to "enemies" to retain consistency.
• Watch for colloquialisms such as "in the pack".

Things that you need to correct:

• The control system is usually simple to learn, with as little as two buttons, which can be combined to pull off combos, as well as jumping and grappling attacks. → reading this sentence, it doesn't make sense. It's saying that the control system can be combined to pull off combos, which I know that's not it. Rewrite that sentence to clarify.
• However these games are often quite difficult to win, in order to extract more quarters from players in arcades. → Rewrite this sentence. The usage of "in order to" doesn't make sense here. I suggest something like "making players use more quarters..." or something like that.
• The action usually takes place in city streets, employing vigilante crime fighting and revenge plots, though historical and fantasy themed games also exist. → Reading this, it sounds like you're saying that the action employs vigilante crime fighting and revenge plots, instead of the game as I'm sure intended. Rewrite to clarify that you are talking about the games (it should make the phrase though historical... make more sense to the reader as a result).
• Attacks can include combos, as well as jumping and grappling attacks. → Describe briefly what a combo is for those "lay people" out there.
• The control system is usually simple to learn, with as little as two buttons, which can be combined to pull off combos, as well as jumping and grappling attacks. → Again, the control system is not pulling off the combos, but the buttons. Rewrite to clarify.
• ...to play the game cooperatively, and this aspect is central to these games' appeal. → I cannot put my finger on it, but something doesn't sound right after the comma (that I inserted ;) ).
• Streets of Rage 2 has been claimed as the superlative scrolling beat 'em up. → Is "superlative scrolling" taken from the source? If so, it needs to be in quotations. Else, it needs to be changed to something else.
• While critics saw Dynasty Warriors 2 as innovative and technically impressive,[2][4] they held a mixed opinion of later titles, which received praised for simple, enjoyable gameplay but were simultaneously derided as overly simplistic and repetitive. → It looks and sounds very wordy. Cut that sentence down, and make it more concise.
• Although the genre lacks the same presence it did in the late 1980s, a few titles have kept the genre alive. → Which ones are keeping the genre alive? Elaborate a little on that.

I tweaked these, see what you think. bridies (talk) 01:32, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

I made some additional minor edits [1], [2], [3], [4], and [5] (remember that they're fighting "on" city streets, not "in"), but everything now looks good. MuZemike 19:32, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

1. B. MoS compliance:

2. Is it factually accurate and verifiable?

   A. References to sources:

   All sources look reliable.

   B. Citation of reliable sources where necessary:

   Well-referenced via inline citations. The beat 'em up was also a popular genre for video games based on movies. → No verifiable source for this. Also, it doesn't fit in with the supporting material. The Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles video games were not based strictly off any of the movies but rather off the success of the franchise as a whole (from the TV series, movies, and action figures). Suggest removing it if you're not going to include examples of movie-based beat 'em ups in the 1990s.

It's from the Tao Part 2 article (page 3).[6] I changed it so it's one statement. The source says: "Even traditionally disastrous TV and film licences looked toward the beat-'em-up for a suitable platform, and unexpected success stories blossomed from the usual manure pile of tie-in games. The Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, The Simpsons and even Michael Jackson's Moonwalker (which was right up kid's allies due to the singer's big release at the cinema) provided exhilarating fighting experiences." I picked out TMNT in particular because there's other reviews of it used in the article. bridies (talk) 01:32, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

I went in and added "television series and movies", which is stated in the source. It should be good, now. MuZemike 19:32, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

1. C. No original research:

2. Is it broad in its coverage?

   A. Major aspects:

   B. Focused:

3. Is it neutral?

   Fair representation without bias:

4. Is it stable?

   No edit wars, etc:

   Some edit-warring last year, but no recent ones.

5. Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?

   A. Images are copyright tagged, and non-free images have fair use rationales:

   File:Streets_of_Rage_Genesis_Character_select.png is stated to be of high-resolution, which violates WP:NFCC#3b. Either reupload the image in a lower-resolution version or remove the image completely. I have also merged the information in the first fair-use rationale into the bottom FUR for File:Double Dragon.png as shown here, as the first template will likely be deleted (the second one wouldn't suffice, but the first one I think would).

Replaced the image with one that I think is low resoultion... bridies (talk) 01:32, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

Looks like Randomran included another one in there, as well. I would ask that the FUR for the TMNT image be strengthened up a bit (going past the boilerplate rationale provided in {{vgrationale}}). The first FUR for the Final Fight needs to be merged into the other two, since the {{Vgscreenshot fur}} template, as I noted before, is going to be deleted. MuZemike 19:32, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

I just replaced those two with shots that I took myself (and reduced the sizes myself) and filled out a FUR for each from scratch. The reduced size looks a bit crappy though. The others I took from other articles, so I don't know if they actually are reduced resolution. bridies (talk) 21:54, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

I reduced the file and image sizes for you (which I used PNGGauntlet to optimize the images sizewise). I also strengthened the FUR for both of them for you. For future reference when bringing articles to GA (or you can start doing this for each article you become involved in to save on work down the line), look at these FURs. Especially the "purpose" section as this determines if WP:NFCC#8 is met, it needs to be spelled out specifically why the image is there. The users who review articles for Featured Article status are very strict on the usage of nonfree images, and they will oppose nomination for a shabby FUR or even the usage of too many nonfree images (not to scare you or anything should try to get this all the way up to FA). All the images—size and fair-use rationales—look good, now. MuZemike 23:55, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

1. B. Images are provided where possible and appropriate, with suitable captions:

   Good use of captions.

2. Overall:

   Pass or Fail:

   I am placing this GA nomination on hold for now. Please correct the issue with the image and the prose issues. I also have to leave right now, but I will pick up my combing of the content a little later. MuZemike 22:39, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

   I have now completely combed over the entire article and have listed all shortcomings I saw in the prose (and one in sourcing/verifiability, in which I had to ) above. MuZemike 00:39, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

   That's it! Everything looks good, so I give it the green light for GA status. Good job! MuZemike 23:55, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

Oh, and just for grins, you spelled Karateka as Karaketa. I think the name of that game is pronounced "karate"-ka, like rhyming with "carotid". This is contrary to an old Atari 7800 commercial (see [7]) in which the announcer pronounces it as "care-a-tee-ka". MuZemike 00:39, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

Oops... Yeah the pronunciation in the ad is wrong. The closest you could get in Japanese to that pronunciation would be something like "Keiratiika" or "Keratiika". The proper pronunciation would be "Ka-ra-te-ka", with equal stress on each syllable (and that pesky Japanese "r"...). bridies (talk) 01:32, 5 April 2009 (UTC)