Talk:Battle of Wolf 359

Untitled

Shouldn't Losses: Unknown, minor (if any)for the Borg be remplaced by Locus of Borg (captured) (or have this information added) or is it a spoiler? --Astrowob 05:07, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Labeling Locutus as a loss would be incorrect. Locutus was captured well after the battle, not during it.--Pat

Klingons

Just like the assimilation page, this one states that there were Klingon ships at the battle. Until someone shows me canon evidence that there were Klingon ships present, I'm changing it to solely Starfleet. Kevin W. 05:11, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

According to Memory Alpha, the Klingons were sending vessels to reinforce Starfleet, but I see no indication that the Klingons arrived in time to actually fight. Umlautbob 04:18, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

The Voyager episode "Unity" features Klingons assimilated by the Borg, presumeably at Wolf 359. Famartin 04:11, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Picture

Wouldn't it be better to have an image from the actual Battle of Wolf 359, instead of one of the combatants in a separate tactical engagement eight light-years away? --68.41.122.213 21:43, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

Yes. Have one? --EEMeltonIV 21:46, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

Should be easy enough to get a low-res screen capture if someone has a copy of The Emissary (DS9) handy. --Raguleader 06:29, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Borg commander at Wolf 359?

Wouldn't Locutus of Borg be the Borg commander at Wolf 359?--Raguleader 06:34, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

He was just the spokesman. He wasn't the one giving the orders.

His knowledge and insight of Federation tactics and technology gave the Borg a tremendous advantage though. His role in the battle was significant enough to warrant him being listed as a Borg "commander". CyberRaptor 05:48, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Can anyone cite a source -- even a bit of dialog -- that says Locutus was any more a decision-maker than anyone else there? If not, then it's OR. --EEMeltonIV 16:08, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Wolf 359 as a nod to Invaders from Mars?

In the rereleased/British version of 1953 movie Invaders from Mars(with extra footage), they are discussing where the aliens may come from and the astronomer mentions Wolf 359. Perhaps this should be mentioned as a possible reason why Wolf 359 was chosen as the location of the Battle?Jccalhoun 19:52, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

Very inconclusive- that's hardly the only time Wolf 359 had been used in previous fiction. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stars_and_planetary_systems_in_fiction#Wolf_359 Nentuaby 02:08, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

I really thought I heard someone mention that it was the Outer Limits episode. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.184.241.144 (talk) 04:05, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

I assume that Wolf 359 was chosen as its the last place of any real significance between the Jouret system (at the start of the episode) and Earth, as per this map Timeoin (talk) 07:33, 5 May 2018 (UTC) Timeoin (talk) 07:33, 5 May 2018 (UTC)

InfoBox

• "Infoboxes, usually placed in the upper-right portion of an article, give key data about the article's subject in tabular format. For entities within fiction, useful infobox data might include the creators or actors, first appearance, an image, and in-universe information essential to understanding the entity's context in the overall fiction. What qualifies as essential varies based on the nature of the work. Where facts change at different points in a story or series, there may be no appropriate in-universe information at all to add. By contrast, an infobox on a character in a fantasy work with multiple warring factions may warrant data such as allegiance."

That is the policy you cite as the logic for deleting the infobox? Where there does it say this infobox cannot be used in fiction? It says useful data MIGHT include creators or actors, first appearance, an image, ect., but it does not RESTRICT it to that. When the article is on a battle, and infobox that clearly lists major combatants and casualties add a lot of clarity to the article, and you have cited no policy that states otherwise. Please use the talkpage before making more unilateral, and unprecedented edits. Gamer83 22:04, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

Keep reading to the second paragraph.

As with all infoboxes, trivial details should be avoided. An infobox for a real-life actor would not contain items such as favorite food and hobbies; these details do not aid the reader in understanding the important characteristics of the subject. In the same way, infoboxes about fictional entities should avoid delving into minutiae, such as information only mentioned in supplementary backstory. For this reason, infoboxes meant for real-world entities should not be applied to their fictional counterparts, since, for example, information important to a description of a real-world company may be tangential to a fictional one. It is important to identify the revenue of Microsoft, whereas the fact that fictional MegaAcmeCorp makes 300 billion GalactiBucks in the year 2463 is probably unimportant.

The casualties, the exact number of ships, the commander (a trivially minor character), and the year are all trivial facts in the real world. (Admittedly, they may be important facts on a fan wiki like Memory Alpha, but that's a different kind of project entirely.)

This infobox doesn't do any of the things that an infobox is supposed to do for a fictional subject. It doesn't have a single bit of real-world info, just lots of trivial fictional info. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 22:08, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

• From your own link:

redundant copypaste removed

In this case, since it is a fictional battle, it is quite essential to have information on who was in the battle, which side won, who the commanders were, etc. The policy you cite is meat to prevent people from using infoboxes that contain extraneous information. You are misinterperiting the policy. Where is it stated that this infobox is strictly an infobox for real-world battles only? You have yet to porduce anything stating that. This infobox has information relevant to the universe that the story takes place in, that is what the policy you cite is concerned about. .Gamer83 22:15, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

It is not essential to name a minor character who is mentioned only in passing in BOBW. It is not essential to count the number of ships on a battlefield filled with wreckage, let alone the dead fictional bodies in those wrecked ships. This is extraneous information, comparable to MegaAcmeCorp's 300 billion galactibucks.

You've made the essential mistake of confusing the fictional universe for the real one. This isn't a battle; it's a storyline. The vital facts are the fictional works where the story appears, the creators, the main characters, and the antagonists. This infobox has lots of extraneous junk (casualties, minor characters, ship counts) but none of the vital info.- A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 22:26, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

The creators, main characters, and work the story apperaes in are already covered inthe article for the EPISODE that the battle occcured in. The purpose of this article its to give detailed information concerning the battle itself, hence the info box which basically summarizes the entire page's essential information. This isn't an article for the episode it'self, it's an article with detailed information on the fictional battle.Gamer83 22:28, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia doesn't do articles that are nothing but detailed plot summary. Such articles should be merged with the articles on the fictional works. This article has lots of problems; this is merely the simplest. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 22:29, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

Springing from a similar point re. infoboxes...

...but this article is only a rehash of the episode's plot summary; there's no assertion of real-world notability. This should probably just redirect to the episode article (says the guy who's made a bunch of edits to this article). --EEMeltonIV 22:32, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

Ships

WP:NOT#Wikipedia_is_not_an_indiscriminate_collection_of_information - please establish why a partial list of ships, most of which aren't named on screen and whose presence is confirmed only in a table in the ST Encyclopedia, are worth including here. What significant real-world value does such an incomplete list offer the article? WP:ILIKELISTSABOUTSTARTREK is not policy for inclusion. --EEMeltonIV 10:25, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

I dont think adding sarcastic comments about nonexistent policies helps anyone. I actually did the same thing, but it was removed by another editor. Sorry about that and I would hope that you back off the incivilty as well. The problem seems to be solved with the MA link. -38.119.112.190 18:39, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

The battle didn't actually happen; it isn't "factual". --EEMeltonIV 15:49, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Speaking as a confirmed Trekkie who has done a lot of editing of Star Trek categories, I don't think this material is significantly useful to readers of Wikipedia. I suggest you add the extra material at Memory Alpha instead. Tell you what, I'll add an external link in this article to the list there. - Fayenatic london (talk) 16:26, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

• Starships at Wolf 359 at Memory Alpha

Fair use rationale for Image:Borg cube ship over earth.jpg

Image:Borg cube ship over earth.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 04:16, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

 Done - Fayenatic (talk) 14:16, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Source

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Assessment

I have added a quality assessment rating and importance rating to this article. Feel free to change them as the article improves! Also, feel free to add more issues to the list below, and strike them out (strike) when they're completed. — OranL (talk) 23:07, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

Notable issues

• Lead section needs to be expanded. It should completely summarize the battle, so that readers don't need to read further into the article to get that information.
• This battle had a prominent impact on Sisko's character. There should be more information about that.

It is mentioned by admiral toddman in ds9 episode titled, the die is cast. Referred to as a similar battle to the romulan-carrdassian loss to the Jem hadar in orbit of the home planet of the founders.

Links

The links lead to Memory Beta, not Alpha. -- Imladros (talk) 15:18, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

Redirect

I agree this can/should be a redirect (although Borg (Star Trek) is probably a more apt target). Before that happens, though, MIB or whomever, please merge the "character impact" stuff to Jean-Luc Picard and Benjamin Sisko as appropriate. I would do it myself but am sleepy, and am afraid after looking at how weak those articles are, would just fatigue myself further by doing other edits to them :-]. --EEMIV (talk) 03:08, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

I support the redirect as well. Doctorfluffy (robe and wizard hat) 03:36, 15 May 2009 (UTC)