Talk:Battle of Kumanovo/Archive 1

Archive 1

Prisoners?

Can someone add more information on the Ottoman losses and prisoners? My grandpa was wounded and left for dead at this battle while the Ottomans were retreating. He was luckily and mercifully taken to a Serb hospital and spent a year as a prisonor. This was a terrible defeat for the Ottomans. It was not just a military affair. Millions of Turks and Muslims were forced out of Balkans, many died and killed. It was a huge tragedy for the Muslim people of the area which continues to this day it seems.--Murat (talk) 22:20, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

"The Ottomans suffered 12,000 dead and wounded and about 300 were taken prisoner." citation: Hall, Richard C. (2000). The Balkan Wars 1912-1913: prelude to the First World War. New York: Routledge. pp. pp. 48. ISBN 0415229472. {{cite book}}: |pages= has extra text (help) who in turn cites Aleksander M. Stojichevich, Istorija nashih ratova za oslobodjenje i ujedinjenje od 1912-1918 god (Belgrade, 1932), p. 164. Aramgar (talk) 06:25, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Thank you.--Murat (talk) 12:34, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

The number 12.000 includes those who deserted in the aftermath of the battle (more people then lost during the battle itself), many of whom were Albanian, Macedonian and Serbian conscripts unwilling to fight in a lost cause and die for the Ottoman empire. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.208.237.254 (talk) 10:07, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

First of all you need to understand that Turks/Muslims were ones who invaded these areas! So what gives you right to say "It was not just a military affair. Millions of Turks and Muslims were forced out of Balkans, many died and killed.", how many Serbs Greeks Bulgarians and others you impaled, forced to Islam and so on...? Ottomans invaded our lands, killed our people, took our children....talk about that ! Imagine that we speak about how poor some murderer in jail is, as he was taken to execution for his deeds....but you forget what he did !!! Thank you Goxy63

Some more aftermath?

This was an interesting read, but I see that most of the text is based on one source only. I wish there were more, although, unfortunately, I am no expert on the field so i can't do that.

Recently I read a transcript from a Radio Free Europe interview with Adem Demaci who claims that this battle was aimed at prevention of the creation of an Albanian state, rather then just a battle against the Turks. I find these national-centric opinions always suspicious, after all such attitudes, where one nation is always the innocent one and everybody around is doing wrong to them for no reason, did lead to the most recent Balkan wars, so i would like to see more information of the direct consequences of this and other battles from those first balkan wars on the non-slavic (and non-greek) population. The lest room for mystification, the easier it will be to write off historical dramas for political (exc)use. 129.11.124.194 (talk) 16:28, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

Vardar Macedonia

I've taken off the initial references to Vardar Macedonia. Indeed Kumanovo is an integral city of this region however it is often the case that when people write about history (Wikipedia editors and real historians), it can be very easy to confuse entities regarding the time in question. Kumanovo (then Kumanova) was a city in the Kosovo Vilayet, not something people immediately link this battle to because most consider the Kosovo of 1912 to be the same region it is today when in fact is was significantly larger in land mass then (covering today's region). Regarding Macedonia by name, that word was on the tongues of Serbian, Greek and Bulgarian leaders in relation to how they would divide this arbitrary territory amongst themelves. But from an Ottoman perspective, there was no Macedonian vilayet or subdivision. For belligerents such as the Balkan League aiming to capture the territories and drive out Ottoman control, it was of no importance where the Ottoman lines of internal demarcation were. As such, Kumanovo was merely part of the Serbian campaign versus the Ottomans to retake Kosovo. Concerning Bulgaria, even it too had no aspirations in this particular region, nor Skopje. They were happy to leave Kosovo to Serbia but wished to claim the territories south of the region: that in turn became what they, Serbia and Greece meant went citing "Macedonia" in 1913 ahead of the Second Balkan War. Only in 1944 within the scope of Communist Yugoslavia was modern-day Vardar Macedonia drawn up to include its conventional outline, and here Kumanovo was placed in Macedonia along with Veles, Skopje, Štip and Tetovo all of which were in the Ottoman Kosovo up to 1912. The Big Hoof! (talk) 03:52, 18 July 2013 (UTC)Struck out sock. bobrayner (talk) 04:25, 2 December 2013 (UTC)

Enemy

I have noticed a rather partial description of the battle (as in many related articles). Ottomans are referred to as the enemy often. They were only one of the two sides in this battle. Enemy is a relative term. This is supposed to be a neutral depository of objective information.

Unsourced claim

Unsourcesd claim in the lead is misleading. The Battle of Kumanovo was not the largest battle during the First Balkan War. The Battle of Lule Burgas was the largest battle not only during the First Balkan War, but the largest battle fought in Europe between the end of the Franco-Prussian War of 1870 and the beginning of the First World War in 1914. Check: Erickson, Edward J. (2003). Defeat in Detail: The Ottoman Army in the Balkans, 1912–1913. Greenwood Publishing Group. ISBN 0-275-97888-5, p. 102. If I can see the Battle of Kumanovo was the largest battle of the Vardar military theater of this war per: Igor Despot, The Balkan Wars in the Eyes of the Warring Parties: Perceptions and Interpretations, iUniverse, 2012, ISBN 1475947038, p. 94. Thank you. Jingiby (talk) 20:24, 1 January 2019 (UTC)