Talk:Battle of Karameh/GA1

GA Review

Article (edit | visual edit | history) · Article talk (edit | history) · Watch

Reviewer: FunkMonk (talk · contribs) 19:32, 1 March 2016 (UTC)

• Hi, I'll review this aerticle.
• First impression, many sentences and paragraphs under battle end without citations, they all need it.

@FunkMonk: The sources for the unsourced parts in that section would be in the consecutive paragraphs.. Anyway, I will add them now. Makeandtoss (talk) 21:42, 1 March 2016 (UTC)

Alright, but then these sentences should be in the same paragraphs, not stand alone. FunkMonk (talk) 21:43, 1 March 2016 (UTC)

Better? --Makeandtoss (talk) 21:48, 1 March 2016 (UTC)

Much better, there are unsourced statements under Casualties too, though. FunkMonk (talk) 16:11, 3 March 2016 (UTC)

Done --Makeandtoss (talk) 16:29, 3 March 2016 (UTC)

• I'm not sure about the infobox image. First off, it seems to be a diorama, not "3D" (whatever that is supposed to mean here), and I think a map or photo of a location or battle (maybe this[1]) would be more appropriate there. The diorama photo would be more appropriate under culture or aftermath.
• Perhaps add date (1977) to the Arafat photo, so readers don't think it is from during the war.
• This image[2] certainly doesn't seem to be self-made, so should be deleted, unless it is public domain according to Jordanian law.
• "Israel destroyed the existing Fatah networks there" Explain what Fatah is, by for example saying "destroying the networks of the Palestinian group Fatah".
• "blocked by the IDF." Spell IDF out and link at first occurrence in article body.
• ", as well as the American-financed East Ghor Canal" How can one retaliate against a canal?
• "and fedayeen moved into the valley." Explain fedayeen in parenthesis.
• "In February, he sent" New paragraph, so name "he".
• "order a Fatah unit to leave Karameh." Present and link Karameh at first mention. What is it?
• "Chief of Staff (Ramatkal)" Link in parenthesis seems redundant, can't Chief of Staff just link to the relevant article?
• "— mindful of an adverse American reaction —" Perhaps state that the US had good relations with Jordan?
• " Haim-Moshe Shapira vocally opposed it, while Education Minister Zalman Aran opposed it" Opposed what?
• "There was an intelligence informant who was a former Fatah member, code-named "Grotius". He was "familiar with the base in Karameh and its surroundings." I'd merge these two abrupt sentences.
• "the Allenby Bridge (King Hussein Bridge) and Damia Bridge (Adam Bridge)." Why different names? If the ones in parenthesis are the modern names, should be mentioned.
• "On March 17, Dayan warned that the Arabs were preparing" The Arabs? Doesn't sound so neutral.
• "he termed the Arabs' "repeated acts of aggression."" Likewise. If "the Arabs" is included because it is what these Israelis said, it should be placed within the quote-marks.
• "between those bridges." The bridges. They are only named in an earlier paragraph, not in this one.

Addressed the issues. Makeandtoss (talk) 22:17, 3 March 2016 (UTC)

• Is there any reason why the battle section, unlike the rest of the article, is written in many, very short paragraphs? It is a bit distracting when reading.
• "(Israeli Colonel Gonen of the 7th Armored later claimed the action on the Abdullah bridge was merely a diversion.)[8]" Earlier you state it as a fact that it was a diversion?

I didn't write the battle section so I don't really know. Well his opinion says "merely a diversion". In reality, it was a diversion. Makeandtoss (talk) 22:44, 4 March 2016 (UTC)

Isn't this line redundant then? FunkMonk (talk) 23:30, 4 March 2016 (UTC)

• "on the right flank of Israeli forces invading from the south, tried to protect it" What does "it" refer to?
• "Jordanian soldiers surrounding Israeli abandoned or destroyed trucks and tanks which were paraded across Amman and were put on display at the Hashemite Plaza.[39]" Not sure about the formatting here, isn't there a way to makie it look more as part of the gallery, directly above, or directly below it?
• "captured during the corresponding Operation Asuta." That is a self-link.
• "nd 1 aircraft; 113 Squadron Dassault Ouragan," a 113 Squadron Dassault Ouragan?
• "Israeli command structure" Why is this table needed? Seems a bit one-sided and overdetailed.
• " Gideon Rafael later said" Who? You need to present each person first time they are named.
• There are various words that are linked in the article more than once.
• "are considered to have been important catalysts for the 1970 events of Black September in Jordan.[20][48]" Perhaps a very short elaboration on Black September?
• "Maybe I'm making the mistake of my life, but if I am, I should do it now. I have a right to my opinion, and those who don't agree with me are simply hiding from the truth." This part of the quote seems unnecessary.
• Also, I'm not sure why these long quotes can't just be summarised in the text?
• "The Battle of Karameh was the subject of many artworks, stamps and posters.[52]" To have a new section for this short sentence (instead of just including it in the former one) seems excessive, unless you can expand it.
• "during the War of Attrition." Should also be mentioned outside the intro. The intro should never have unique info, and is only a summary of the article body.
• "which culminated in an Israeli school bus hitting a mine in the Negev." Wasn't that the catalyst rather than culmination?
• "Files released by the IDF revealed" Only mentioned as such in intro.
• "Israel wanted to punish Jordan" Likewise.
• " When Jordan saw the size of the raiding forces entering the battle it was lead to the assumption that Israel had another goal of capturing Balqa Governorate to create a Golan Heights similar situation." Likewise.
• "Israel assumed that the Jordanian Army would ignore the invasion" Likewise.
• "This engagement marked the first known deployment of suicide bombers by Palestinian forces." Likewise. Should certainly be elaborated.
• "The battle resulted in the issuance of the United Nations Security Council Resolution 248, which condemned Israel for violating the cease-fire line.[22]" Likewise.
• "were a considerable surprise for the Israel Defense Forces and was stunning to the Israelis.[4]" Likewise.
• "Although the Palestinians were not victorious on their own, King Hussein let the Palestinians take credit.[4][23][24]" Likewise.
• You use a lot of sources in the intro, this is not needed, since all this info is supposed to be sourced in the article body. There should not be sources in the intro not used in the body.
• " King Hussein after the battle proclaimed, "I think we may reach a position where we are all fedayeen." No reason to have the same quote twice in the article.
• "However, afterwards the PLO's strength began to grow, and Palestinians spoke openly of taking over Jordan." Not mentioned outside intro.

Adressed issues. --Makeandtoss (talk) 22:53, 6 March 2016 (UTC)

• Changes look good, but this wording "managed to kick out the" seems way too informal. FunkMonk (talk) 23:06, 6 March 2016 (UTC)
• "and that repetitions of these violations will force the Security Council to take further steps." Why present tense?
• "condemned Israeli raid on Jordanian territory and violation of the cease-fire line" You need to add "the" two places here.

Done --Makeandtoss (talk) 13:11, 7 March 2016 (UTC)

Nice, all looks good to me now, so I will pass the article. FunkMonk (talk) 13:13, 7 March 2016 (UTC)

Great, thanks. Makeandtoss (talk) 13:31, 7 March 2016 (UTC)