Talk:Battle of Halidzor

This article was nominated for deletion on 2 August 2023. The result of the discussion was procedural close.

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Edit war over Ottoman army size

Since some users cannot agree on what the strength of the Ottoman army should be recorded as and are resorting to edit warring, I want to quote extensively from the sources. The 70,000 figure is directly from Patmutiun Ghapantsvots:

"երեք հարիւր վառեալք ի յութերորդ ժամու աւուրն ձայն ետուն, խրախոյս բարձին, յարձակեցան միանգամայն ի վերայ եօթանասուն հազարաց [in the seventh hour of the day three hundred fiery men gave the signal, raised shouts of encouragement, and at once fell upon seventy thousand.]" (Ղուկաս Սեբաստացի․ Դաւիո Բէկ կամ Պատմութիւն Ղափանցուոց [Ghukas Sebastatzi, Davit Bek or the History of the Kapanians], Աշխ․ Հ․ Սամուէլ Արամեան (Վենետիկ Ս․ Ղազար, 1978, p. 170).

Now let's look at A. G. Hovhannisian and H. D. Papazian, "Azatagrakan krivnere Syunikum", which is a reliable secondary source:

"The author of the 'Excellent History' [i.e. Patmutiun Ghapantsvots] describes the heroic defense of Halidzor in extremely vibrant colors, severely decreasing the number of the Armenian fighters and multiplying the forces of the enemy [խիստ նվազեցնելով հայ մարտիկների թիվը և բազմապատկելով թշնամու ուժերը]. But however the balance of forces may have been (and that must have been in favor of the attackers), the reality is that after the seven-day defensive battles the Ottoman army was unable to break through the fortress walls and could not resist the sudden counterattack of the Armenian soldiers and fled in a panic from the battlefield."

So, we should rely on the secondary source, a modern academic work, instead of taking the figure from Patmutiun Ghapantsvots at face-value. The figures of 300 Armenians and 70,000 Ottomans have to be mentioned, since that is what we have, but it also has to be mentioned that these are exaggerations, as often happens with pre-modern military battles. Revolution Saga (talk) 03:17, 10 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I know I am late but I agree, it's incredibly common for primary sources to exaggerate enemy army sizes and that's seems to be the case for the numbers given in Patmutiun Ghapantsvots. The 70,000 number should remain in the article as it is present in the primary source, however imo either a note should be attached to it specifying it's exaggerated, citing the Azatagrakan krivnere Syunik quote or in the strength section of the battle infobox it should simply state "70,000 (likely exaggerated)" Cannotpick (talk) 13:58, 29 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

Battle of David Bek in Helidzor.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 11:21, 15 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Artsakh massacres (1919)

Armenians rebels leds by Andranik Ozanian killed 12.483 Azeris but with the undertermined murders the number approching 50.000 37.166.196.2 (talk) 07:50, 11 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Wrong

1 Armenian vs 70.000 Turks would be more accurate. I can give you this information from Armenian sources. There was only 1 Armenian and 50 thousand Turks were killed. Another 20,000 Turks escaped from that Armenian., probably a terminator. 88.233.24.217 (talk) 14:20, 14 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]