Talk:Battle of Frenchtown/Archive 1

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Archive 1

Questions

I have two questions.

The first, I realize, is rather vague. But, before the First Battle, if Winchester had 1,000 men, and he sent 767 of them north (667 Kentuckians and 100 French), is that a "small relief detachment"? It appears he sent 3/4 of his total force; can that be correct? Also, during the Second Battle, Winchester is still described as having about 1,000 men despite the arrival of the reinforcements from the 17th U.S. Infantry. Was this group so small that they merely offset losses from the First Battle, or constitute a rounding error in the estimate of about 1,000 men?

The second is more specific. During the Second Battle, William Orlando Butler is described as burning down a barn occupied by British commanders, and the reference supports this. However, when I read Butler's Wikipedia page, it gives a different account of his experience at this battle, and describes the barn-burning exploit as happening at a later battle. And there is a reference for that, also: http://parks.ky.gov/findparks/resortparks/gb/history/ There it says that "He took part in the Battle of the River Raisin. During the battle, Butler and his comrades defended themselves behind a fencerow. The Indians poured such an intense fire on the fencerow that when it was over Butler found that his clothes were riddled with bullets." and, later, " He retuned to Kentucky only to join the American forces that met the British and Indians at the Battle of the Thames. During the battle, Butler volunteered to set fire to a barn where the enemy had taken shelter. He successfully did so and received the rank of colonel for his bravery." So do we have conflicting sources? Or did he fire a barn at BOTH battles?

I hope one of the editors of this article can sort some of this out, but if not, no great harm; interesting article nevertheless. 71.86.122.57 (talk) 09:13, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

For the first question, there were different numbers given in many sources. Some sources say Winchester had 2,000 troops, while other say any number between 800–2,000. There are no official numbers of the total amount of troops he had, but the numbers that fought in the first battle were few; the numbers that fought in the second are extrapolated by the combined number of all that were killed, captured, or escaped (presuming those were all the troops that fought since they were soundly defeated). The listing of him having 1,000 men is only an approximation. Even the "official" battlefield website is unclear on the numbers he had. It states that Winchester had "2,000 untrained regulars and volunteers mostly from Kentucky," but further on that page, it states that the British had "perhaps as many as 1,300 compared to Winchesters 934." Also, Winchester was in charge of only a portion of the 17th Infantry. William Harrison commanded another group within the infantry, but he and his column were not present at all in Frenchtown. As for the Butler confusion, his Wikipedia article is rather scant on the details. The battlefield website states, "Ensign William O Butler volunteered to set the barn on fire ... By the time the ensign safely returned to his lines his clothing was riddled with bullets." However, I couldn't locate any other supporting sources to verify this, except the official battlefield website, which as I'll reiterate, is confusing on the details. A great source for more information on the battle is the book Remember the Raisin! Kentucky and Kentuckians in the battles and massacre at Frenchtown, Michigan Territory, in the War of 1812, which is available on Google Books. It contains for more details than can ever be included in the Wikipedia article. — ♣№tǒŖïøŭş4lĭfė♫♪ 01:13, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

Name "River Raisin" vs "Frenchtown"

Why is the article titled "Battle of Frenchtown", and why does this article say the name Battle of the River Raisin "was once common but has somewhat fallen into disuse"? I live close to the battlefield, and it has always been known as "The Battle of the River Raisin", and still is today, and not the "Battle of Frenchtown". The national park is called the "River Raisin National Battlefield Park". Says so on the sign at the gate! Who says the name "River Raisin" is disused? Definitely not the case, as that is the official name of the battlefield. Eastcote (talk) 17:46, 30 October 2011 (UTC)

Before naming the national park they must have done extensive research. I agree with poster above. Profhum (talk) 18:38, 5 November 2011 (UTC)

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Which Eaton is Eaton?

It's unclear exactly who "Lt. Colonel JH Eaton" was (the editor/compiler of Returns of Killed and Wounded in Battles or Engagements with Indians and British and Mexican Troops, 1790-1848 - which is known as "Eaton's Compilation"). Not John Eaton (General) since this Eaton was Toledo Ohio acting superintendent of schools from 1856-1859. Not John Eaton (politician), this Eaton was Andrew Jackson's Sec of War 1829-31 & US Senator from Tennessee 1818-1829. Not Joseph Horace Eaton who was a Brevet Mjr. at the time and who was painting in NM in the 1850s. So anyway, I've removed all the wikilinks within the refs for any "Eatons". Shearonink (talk) 04:00, 22 January 2019 (UTC)