Talk:Battle of Cape Henry

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Battle of Cape Henry/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Skinny87 (talk) 14:17, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

GA review (see here for criteria)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):

   "Destouches, based in Newport, Rhode Island, had sailed for the Chesapeake as part of a joint operation with the Continental Army to oppose the British army of Benedict Arnold that was active in Virginia." - I think for consistency's sake you need to use titles, so use 'General Benedict Arnold'

   wikilink Colony of Virginia in first para of lede

   "to support military by the Marquis de Lafayette" - Not entirely sure what this means, can you clarify?

   "Sailing on 8 March, he was followed two days later by Admiral Arbuthnot" - Where was Arbuthnot coming from, and what were his orders?

   "In December 1780, British General Sir Henry Clinton sent Benedict Arnold " - I think Arnold needs his rank here.

   "Seeking to trap Arnold between Lafayette's army and a French naval detachment, he asked the French admiral Destouches" - Is 'he' Washington or Lafayette?

   "Destouches, wary of the British fleet of Vice Admiral of the White Mariot Arbuthnot, which was anchored at Gardiner's Bay off the eastern end of Long Island, was reluctant to help" - Why was he wary - was he outnumbered, as the next para suggest, or were there other factors?

   "When they reached the Chesapeake, Arnold moved his ships up the shallow Elizabeth River" - You haven't mentioned previously that Arnold commanded any ships.

   "This modest success, and the encouragement of General Washington, who went to Newport to see the launch" - Do you mean the launch of the three ships?

   "He apparently had the speed advantage of copper-clad vessels" - Why the 'apparently'? And what does copper cladding do to increase their speed?

   "Although the two fleets were equal in number of ships" - Although mentioned in the infobox, I think the number of ships in each fleet needs to be stated.

   "the 90-gun HMS London was the largest ship of either fleet, while the French fleet also included the recently-captured 44-gun Romulus." - This sentence doesn't make grammatical sence unless Romulus was the most powerful French ship, in which case this needs to be clarified, as at the moment this is only implied.

   "Between 8 and 9" - Is this a.m?

   "with apparently superior maneuverability" - Another 'apparently' - are the sources unsure?

   "While he surrendered the weather gage with this maneuver, it enabled him to open his lower gundecks in the heavy seas, which the British could not do without the risk of water washing onto the lower decks" - Firstly, what does 'surrendered the weather gage' mean? And why did this confer the advantage of opening the lower gundecks?

   "taking off London's topsail yard before pulling away to the east." - If he was apparently damaging the British ships quite severely, why did he decide to retreat? At the moment this major point is unclear.

   "prompting a critical response to Washington by the Comte de Rochambeau" - Who is Rochambeau, and why did he react in this way?

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):

   "The battle has been memorialized by American singer-songwriter Todd Snider in "The Ballad of Cape Henry"" - This seems like trivia, especially sourced to LastFM, an unreliable source. Why is it notable?

   Why is there nothing about Arbuthnott in the Aftermath section? Was he praised for the apparent success? What about the severe damage done to some of his ships? Did Arnold not have anything to say?

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

6. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

I think this needs a bit of work before it can be passed. I'm primarily concerned with the lack of info about Arbuthnot in the Aftermath section, and why Destouches retreated despite apparently damaging a number of British ships. At the moment, the battle section is unclear without this information. Skinny87 (talk) 14:44, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

Why Destouches did not press his advantage (by continuing the battle and/or maneuvering for entry into the bay) is actually a mystery; I'll try to find some suitable analytical commentary on this. The final pass of the action left Destouches' line pulling away from the bay, and Arbuthnot's heading for it. This last bit especially is perhaps less than clear in the text, so I'll add something about it.

As far as Arbuthnot is concerned, it is mentioned that he passed into the bay, but not much of interest happened afterwards that was related to the action. I can add material on what happens to him afterwards (he resigns the post during the summer, probably over disagreements with Clinton -- the two hated each other) but none of that seems to be directly consequent to this action. (I also don't believe Arnold had any specific commentary on the battle, or wrote anything noteworthy about being reinforced afterward, but I'll look again...)

To specifically address your question about where Arbuthnot's orders came from: he was the station chief of the North American fleet (not mentioned, but I will add it), so he would not have been issued any specific orders concerning this action. He may have been requested by Clinton, who did not have command authority over him, to act -- I'll have to check. See above about their relationship. (Where he sailed from is already identified.) Magic♪piano 20:52, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

That all seems reasonable, and there's no point adding something if it wouldn't be entirely relevant. Ping me to let me know when you're ready with any more additions. Skinny87 (talk) 16:20, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

I'm mostly done; I need to find a suitable source that characterizes Arbuthnot's relationship with Clinton and the nature of his departure (most sources just say he left, but aren't explicit about why, even if they mention their nonfunctional relationship; one implies Clinton asked him to be yanked, others suggest he resigned), and I need to chase down an Arnold bio at the library that might mention what may have been seen from Portsmouth (I have vague memories of reading once that the battle may have been at least partly visible from there), or other commentary.

I'm at a bit of loss on what to do with the Snider tune. It certainly smacks of WP:TRIVIA, but somebody (not me) added it, and I actually think it's worth the limited mention it has, considering the battle otherwise has no significant formal recognition. I'm not good with what reliable sources are for this sort of thing; it is also mentioned on his website's discography, of course. Magic♪piano 17:20, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

The research sounds great, good luck. Ping me when you think you'd be ready. As for the tune, well...I don't want to hold this review up unneccessarily, but I don't think it's very notable, as there's no analysis. But that's just my opinion, and I'd suggest leaving it for now and getting a broader consensus if you want to take it any further. Skinny87 (talk) 19:33, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

Today's trip to the library has yielded a suitable update on Arbuthnot's fate, and no particular commentary from Arnold on the business. I've updated the article to reflect the former... If there's anything more to be done, let me know. Magic♪piano 21:06, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

Looks good, so I'll pass it now. Thanks for the extra work on this. Skinny87 (talk) 17:31, 29 September 2010 (UTC)