Talk:Batman's Treaty

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A fact from Batman's Treaty appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 29 September 2005. The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that Batman's Treaty was a treaty made between settler John Batman (pictured) and local Wurundjeri elders in 1835 for the sale of land around Port Phillip and that it was one of the few attempts made by white settlers to negotiate with Australian Aborigines?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2005/September.

Wikipedia

Untitled

"... one of the only ..." This phrase is logically indefensible. It always makes me ask if there were/are any others. Better: "... one of the [very] few ...", or, even better, specify: "... one of only three ...". I don't know what experts on Eglish usage might say about this usage; I only know that it makes me cringe. Too Old 16:30, 29 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

"The document came to be known as Batman's Treaty and is also considered significant as it was the first and only documented time when Europeans negotiated their presence and occupation of Aboriginal lands directly with the traditional owners." This cannot be true and needs to be restated, as aboriginal people in Canada were frequently offered such treaties by the British.

Text of the treaty

Firstly, please keep discussion and meta-references out of the article space.

Secondly, an image of the treaty can be found here [1]. It's a little blurred, but mostly legible. I've updated the references section to make the link to the image more prominent. --bainer (talk) 05:41, 7 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, there are many representations floating around the net (and even on the printed page!)- I went to a lot of trouble sourcing the text (and typing the ####### thing) - Ive now found there are at least 8 copies in existence- Its my intention to list all copies and there textual differences-but until that petty thief puts the first text back I am, understandably, disinclined. And why shouldnt users of wikipedia know the full reason why they have been disallowed from reading it? Eric A. Warbuton 05:52, 7 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Listing all copies would be really wonderful - why not go ahead and do it - at Wikisource, where they belong? Ambi 06:11, 7 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

As I said on your talk page Eric, the text has not been "stolen", it can be viewed at any time in the article's history page, here: [2]. As for the issue of where to put it, I have to agree with Ambi and say that source material belongs on Wikisource. Wikipedia is not a source repository, but Wikisource is. See also Wikipedia:Don't include copies of primary sources. Once the text is on Wikisource, we can add a nice prominent link to it for anyone who wants to read it in full. --bainer (talk) 06:52, 7 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

The text of the treaty (according to Eric's transcription) is now at Wikisource, at the page wikisource:Batman's Treaty. People are free to edit that page as they see fit, including adding any alternative drafts or transcriptions. --bainer (talk) 06:15, 8 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Would someone more familiar with the treaty be able to format the Wikisource page so it doesn't appear as one great chunk of text? Ambi 07:47, 8 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

revert deletion of quantities and acreage change

I reverted these edits as the amounts originally are as in the source cited, and no explanation was given for removal of quantities of change of acreage Garyvines (talk) 12:33, 29 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

treaty was for rent, not purchase, of the land

Read it. The treaty is for use of the land (enfeoffdom) not outright tranfer of sovereignty, for starters. Secondly, there is an upkeep cost, yearly rent, of a similar sum (actually, a somewhat greater sum) as the initial payment. I wonder if Batman himself ever made subsequent payments, and certainly doubt that any such payments were made following the Governer's statement that the treaty was void under his system of law (of course it was, the treaty is for Batman to use the land as a client of the non-English owners, presumably under whatever system of law they held to, or some convention agreed betweem the two parties, or perhaps merely under Common Law or International Law, if such a thing was recognised in those days).

The more interesting question is how or why the Governer of NSW thought the native inhabitants of the land did not have a right to decide on uses of the land, and whether that opinion was true, honestly held, and valid.

Oh and please do something about wikipedia logging the IP of non-registered users. This project is not to erect or support a totalitarian state (if it is, please say so clearly and loudly, particularly when campaigning for donations and soliciting content), and I do not like the idea of being stalked by wierdos such as the admins of this project, or having my interactions with sites such as this conveyed to other users of my internet IP address, be they associates or non-associated parties. I mean this seriously, and take heed, there may be no further warnings, because I am tired of your ignorance of my serious concerns. This issue means this is not 'the encyclopedia anyone can edit' since those who do not wish to provide you with personal details or to have their personal details publicly described cannot edit it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 119.18.3.246 (talk) 13:29, 1 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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What is the Association?

This article mentions the Association several times but doesn't explain was that is/was.

1.126.106.4 (talk) 05:46, 18 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]