Talk:Batch '81/Archive 1

Archive 1

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Batch '81. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive {newarchive} to http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/breakingnews/metro/view/20070328-57479/Batch_%9281%92_revisited_

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{Sourcecheck}}).

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 07:33, 28 October 2016 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Batch '81/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Mike Christie (talk · contribs) 17:56, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

I'll review this. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 17:56, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

The images are appropriately licensed. Sources are reliable for what they are used for; Vera's blog is OK because he's a subject matter expert. I've copyedit a fair bit; please revert anything you disagree with.

• "Upon release, the film received critical acclaim." (In both the lead and the body.) "Acclaim" is very strong; we have two highly positive reviews and one "more muted" review. I think "The film received positive reviews" would be enough.

   Done Kting97 (talk) 00:11, 25 March 2023 (UTC)

• "It was adjudged by the Manunuri ng Pelikulang Pilipino as one of the Ten Best Films of the Decade." "Adjudge" is transitive, so it would need a direct object. I also think we should give the English translation inline. How about "The Manunuri ng Pelikulang Pilipino (Filipino Film Critics) included it on their list of the Ten Best Films of the Decade"?

   Done Kting97 (talk) 00:11, 25 March 2023 (UTC)

• "one of the school's prominent Greek-letter organizations": just checking: are all the frats prominent? Or should this read "one of the most prominent of the school's Greek-letter organizations"?

   Done Kting97 (talk) 00:11, 25 March 2023 (UTC)

• "Although Maceda claimed that the concept of a film about a fraternity came from her after her son had been beaten up by his would-be fraternity brothers, de Leon has said that he came across the culture of an underground university brotherhood from a personal friend." I think this could be better phrased. "Although" isn't really the right connector; I think the point is that each person gave a different account of the inspiration for the film. How about "Maceda and de Leon gave different accounts of the inspiration for the film: Maceda said the idea came to her after her son had been beaten up by his would-be fraternity brothers, while de Leon has said that he came across the culture of an underground university brotherhood via a personal friend"?

   Done Kting97 (talk) 00:11, 25 March 2023 (UTC)

• "During the musical presentation, a scene was filmed where Miss Casuso, played by Nanette Inventor, performs a disco rendition of "Don't Cry For Me Argentina" from the musical Evita. ": what does "musical presentation" refer to? I think it must mean the talent show. I think this needs to be rephrased: the musical presentation is a scene in the film, not a sequence in the shooting script. You could say it the other way round: A scene was filmed [...] which was intended to be part of the musical performance at the inter-fraternity talent show". You use "musical presentations" again in the "Musical performances" again; I think "presentation" is not the right word here.

   Done Kting97 (talk) 00:11, 25 March 2023 (UTC)

• What does it mean to "orally ban" Evita?

   Done Added in this sentence: "Although there was never a formal ban by the government on productions of Evita, permission to produce the musical was orally denied or discouraged by members of the first family, namely Imelda and her daughter Imee." That is just based on what the source said: Del Mundo said Repertory had wanted to put on Evita for years but never dared. "It was never formally banned, but it was orally banned," he said. "We asked if it could be done, and she said 'No.' Imelda said, 'No.' Later we asked her daughter, Imee, because Imee used to act with us. We tried a couple times, and Imee said no, it couldn't be done." Kting97 (talk) 00:11, 25 March 2023 (UTC)

• "Jess Navarro, who would go on to edit de Leon's Kisapmata and Sister Stella L.": I don't think we can say it this way, since Kisapmata was not only released before Batch '81, but almost certainly edited earlier as well.

   Done Kting97 (talk) 00:11, 25 March 2023 (UTC)

• "by the film's end one would have witnesses the characteristic violence": looks like this is misquoted -- I assume it should be "witnessed".

   Done Kting97 (talk) 00:11, 25 March 2023 (UTC)

• "One of the attendants is Ronnie's father, an alumnus of the fraternity, who asks": suggest "Ronnie's father, an alumnus of the fraternity, is present as well, and he asks" -- he's neither a master nor a neophyte, right?

   Done Kting97 (talk) 00:11, 25 March 2023 (UTC)

• "only direct implication of the Marcos regime": I've copyedited this sentence a fair bit, and I'd like to change "implication" to "criticism"; is that supported by the source?

  mentioned below, but I think I would keep "implication" just because that is the term the source uses: "The sociopolitical intimations of the films become the most conspicuous interpretive entry, even if none of them directly implicates the Marcos regime." And then in the footnote, Campos adds: "The only exception is the seemingly tangential mention of martial law in Batch ‘81 (1982). In the film’s fake-torture sequence, the father asks his neophyte son, who is playing dead, if the martial law has done the Philippines good. Since the son is “dead,” he is unable to answer his father’s question" Kting97 (talk) 00:11, 25 March 2023 (UTC)

• Not a GA issue, but you have some duplicate links -- search for Kisapmata for example. This script can help you find them.
• "De Leon prepared a speech, which was read by Tee Pao Chew of the Asian Film Archive, about martial law as well as the contemporary political climate of the Philippines" The phrase "martial law" is linked here to Martial Law under Ferdinand Marcos. This is actually a duplicate link, so I think the link should go, but if the speech was specifically about Marcos's regime and not about martial law in general the text of the sentence should say so.

   Done Kting97 (talk) 00:11, 25 March 2023 (UTC)

I'll do spotchecks next, tonight or possibly tomorrow. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 20:47, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

Hi Mike, thanks for looking this over! I agree with your edits and will make those changes.

Regarding this point:

"only direct implication of the Marcos regime": I've copyedited this sentence a fair bit, and I'd like to change "implication" to "criticism"; is that supported by the source?

This is what the source says - "The sociopolitical intimations of the films become the most conspicuous interpretive entry, even if none of them directly implicates the Marcos regime." And then in the footnote, Campos adds: "The only exception is the seemingly tangential mention of martial law in Batch ‘81 (1982). In the film’s fake-torture sequence, the father asks his neophyte son, who is playing dead, if the martial law has done the Philippines good. Since the son is “dead,” he is unable to answer his father’s question"

Will address your other comments tomorrow. Thanks again for looking over the page! Kting97 (talk) 09:47, 24 March 2023 (UTC)

All your replies/changes look good, except that I think we should make a wording change for the "implication" one. Partly the problem is that when "implicate" is used to mean "imply the guilt of", which is the usage here, "implication" is very rarely the form used, so "implication" is naturally read as "the logical consequence of", which is not what we want. How about "Among de Leon's early films, namely Kakabakaba Ka Ba?, Kisapmata, Batch '81, and Sister Stella L., which all delve into sociopolitical themes, only the electroshock scene can be seen as directly implicating the Marcos regime"? Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 10:30, 25 March 2023 (UTC)

•  Done That looks good, made the edit. Thanks! Kting97 (talk) 23:39, 25 March 2023 (UTC)

Spotchecks

• FN 22 cites 'The scene was based on the psychological Milgram experiment as de Leon wanted to demonstrate "that people will obey authority even if the consequences are serious as long as someone would take responsibility for their actions".' I don't have access to this; can you quote the supporting text?

  "The idea was sparked by The Mind Manipulators by Alan Scheflin and Edward Opton Jr., one of the several psychology books De Leon read while working on Batch '81. The book contains an entry on the Stanley Milgram experiment. "The experiment demonstrated that people will obey authority even if the consequences are serious as long as someone would take responsibility for their actions," De Leon explained to Agustin Sotto in 1981 when asked how the scene in the movie came about. "In the Milgram experiment, a victim in cahoots with the experimenters, is strapped to the chair while the respondents watch the interrogation. Each time he answers falsely, he is given an electric shock. The fake drama comes to a climax when the victim pretends to have a heart attack."" Kting97 (talk)

• FN 12 cites "This is considered the breakout film editing work of Jess Navarro, who also edited de Leon's Kisapmata, and would go on to edit other notable films including Ishmael Bernal's Broken Marriage and Peque Gallaga's Oro, Plata, Mata." Can you quote the supporting text?

  From the text: "His breakout film editing work was Mike de Leon's Batch '81, for which Navarro was honored with an award. This singular achievement ws followed with other awards for landmark films Kisapmata, Broken Marriage, Sister Stella L., and Hinugot sa Langit. From 1985, a string of recognized films solidified his career. These included Oro, Plata, Mata, Scorpio Nights, Virgin Forest, Sibak: Midnight Dancers, Eskapo, Dekada '70, Jose Rizal, and Muro-Ami." Hope this is enough. Kting97 (talk) 23:37, 25 March 2023 (UTC)

  Can you rephrase "breakout film editing work"? Perhaps "Navarro's editing of the film is recognized as his first notable work; he also edited..."? Otherwise this is fine. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 11:55, 26 March 2023 (UTC)

   DoneKting97 (talk) 12:11, 26 March 2023 (UTC)

• FN 3 cites "According to del Mundo, some of the material for the film came from interviews with "informants" of Upsilon Sigma Phi, a fraternity based in the University of the Philippines." Verified.
• FN 9 cites "Several months into shooting, production on Batch '81 came to a halt as Maceda's other film, the Vilma Santos-headlined Pakawalan Mo Ako, was behind schedule and eating up their financing. During the three-month hiatus, de Leon and his creative team made the psychological horror film Kisapmata. Shooting resumed after Maceda was able to raise more funds. Principal photography was completed in August 1981." Can you quote the supporting text?

  "The persistent concern about budget would hit the Batch '81 set hardest when it was announced in May–four months into intense, backbreaking work–that filming would be put on halt. The production of Maceda's other film, Pakawalan Mo Ako, which began earlier than Batch '81, was running was behind schedule due to its problematic star, Vilma Santos. Having two films simultaneously grinding was a very expensive undertaking and Maceda was running out of cash. "So I told Mike we needed to stop shooting, for a while," Maceda remembers. "After that, I had no idea what happened. He was already mad at me.""

  "Three months later, frantic nerves would calm down. Maceda raised the money, and shooting resumed. Continuity became a nightmare, however, owing to the fact that one important scene, the killing of Arni, was shot six months apart."

  "While on break from Maceda's film, De Leon and his creative team made use of their time by making an entirely new feature, Bancom Audivision's Kisapmata."

  "Principal photography for Batch '81 was completed by August 1981." Kting97 (talk)

  The line about principal photography is very close to the source, but I don't see a good way to paraphrase it further, so I think it's OK. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 11:55, 26 March 2023 (UTC)

   Done Not particularly original but changed to "By August 1981, principal photography was completed." Kting97 (talk) 12:11, 26 March 2023 (UTC)

• FN 32 cites 'In a more muted review, however, Joel David noted that "more time is spent on the depiction of initiation rites than on lead character Sid Lucero's motive for membership at all costs, when it fact it is his obsession that leads to an escalation of the level of violence in the neophytes' experience."' Can you quote the supporting text?

  The quote is actually from the text itself. Here is the full paragraph if it helps: "Impressive production values alone, however, do not a masterpiece make. In this regard de Leon can be credited with having chosen for Batch ’81 more serious subject matter – the fraternity as a microcosm of society – than those of his previous films (in receding order: thriller, musical, romance, and horror). Also, in Batch ’81, several literate tributes (as distinguished from outright plagiarism, in which the reference, without the benefit of adoptive context, is appropriated as an original device) are made to similarly serious exertions in foreign cinema. All these considerations are, of course, so far still secondary, dealing as they do with what may be seen or heard but not with what may be understood, and it is at this point that the film’s difficulties begin. For there is no real exploration of fraternity life in Batch ’81 beyond what may be arrived at through good research. Sensational but irrelevant incidents are substituted for related but presumably less provocative ones. As a consequence, more time is spent on the depiction of initiation rites than on lead character Sid Lucero’s motive for membership at all costs, when in fact it is his obsession that leads to an escalation of the level of violence in the neophytes’ experience." I edited the source so that the chapter is linked since the source is publicly available to read online. Kting97 (talk) 23:37, 25 March 2023 (UTC)

-- Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 10:50, 25 March 2023 (UTC)

Added the supporting quotes in replies. Thanks again for taking the time to look all of this over and for your comments! Kting97 (talk) 23:37, 25 March 2023 (UTC)

Just one small change requested above. This is minor enough that I'm not going to request further spotchecks; once the change is made I'll promote this to GA. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 11:55, 26 March 2023 (UTC)

Hope I addressed everything. Thanks again for your time and your comments! Kting97 (talk) 12:11, 26 March 2023 (UTC)

Passing. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 15:15, 26 March 2023 (UTC)